engine hours/day skipper/newbi !

[mhph]

Please excuse if this has been posted/answered before;first posting.I do not have a boat yet,but hope to acquire by next spring.I have been buying the relevent magazines,going to shows etc, and been trying to assimulate all things boating.
We (my wife and I...I do understand swmbo!) were looking at an entry level flybridge,Sealine F33, and decided it was just about the right size for us to start with.I am curious about the term "low hours".Of course I realise there is an equation between age/usage and other factors.As an example, this boat was 2003 with 375/380 hrs.Is that good, bad or indifferent?.Not being a mechanic, but I was under the impression diesel engines benefited from use as opposed to underuse.
I have just started a day skipper correspondence course and am wondering just how many people still navigate by chart work.Of course I realise it is wise to understand the theory etc,but sometimes you think,nah, go straight to GPS.I can`t say I am finding it difficult,just a lot to absorb.I did A level maths but that was over 40 years ago!
No doubt,and with your patience,I will be posting other questions,and benefiting from all the experience on show here.

 

[Wiggo]

What is the "right size" depends entirely on what you are comfortable with. Our first boat was 12'7" and we worked up from there, but it's not at all uncommon to find people starting with a 40 footer. If you feel you can handle it and it ticks all the boxes for you, then get trained and go for it. Try to blag some time on a similar boat if you can.

SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed, btw...

You are dead right on hours - boats do better if they're used than if they stand around. 50-100 hours per year is considered average, so 380 hours on a 2003 boat is about right. If there's not a complete service history it's not the end of the world, but do get a good survey and get a mechanic to take a proper look, and an oil analysis is probably worth the money.

For long passages, we always do the paper chart work, even if that's only marking waypoints and legs on a large scale passage planning chart. Doing the tidal calcs and steering a compass course over a longish run and actually turning up on time and where you expect to be is satisfying, likewise plotting your EP on paper and having the machinery confirm it.

It's well worth doing: we had the GPS antenna die on us two years ago. We were only out and about locally at the time, but we could have been mid-channel...

 

[volvopaul]

Graham is right you can start anywhere it mostly depends on how deep your pocket is and what you feel comfortable with. Ask yourself, where are you going to boat, if its inland then a flybridge may restrict your cruising ground.

Look at accomodation aft cabins give more privacy, but are fewer in choice, by the sound of it your looking at max 80 to 100k at f33 level, make a choice over shafts or outdrives, the f33 is not an easy boat to get on with especially as a learner, shafts give more slow speed positive handling, which would be easier for you. Costs of maintaining a sterndrive boat are more than shafts, if you are only doing 30/50 hours per year then the fuel useage comparison drives to shafts will be minimal, what you will use extra on fuel with a shaft drive boat, you will save on servicing each year, lift outs and antifouling on permanent hard standing could be cut down to every other year with a shaft drive boat, as you can just book a lift and scrub one year saving about £200.00 every time.

A sterndrive boat will need anode changes mid season if in salt water, and yes before someone butts in it can be done say on the sea lift, but if the legs have water in the oil then its out boat out and more costs.

I would stick to shafts, maybe look at the f36 or f37 similar french stlye boats offer good value for money too, even the 32ft flybridge jeanneau is on shafts, the beneteau 10 is too.
Im not particularly a fan of anything french wether it be cars or boats, the germans make good cars but not so good power boats, we still lead the world I think at boat building for the leisure market where its most popular away from the superyacht league.

Look at as many boats as you can before you decide, even look at ones you cant afford, and models that may look not what you want form the picture, you will be surprised what you find.
I recently was dragged on the eling at sbs by mrs volvopaul and boy was I surprised by it!

Good luck and happy hunting, pm me if you need any engine advise or engine survey/ sea trial reports.

 

[kashurst]

Hi, as a newbie it is very well worth doing the day skipper practical either before you get your own boat or very soon after. I put a lot of dings in my first boat as mooring and coming along side is the tricky bit. You can learn by experience and buy lots of gel coat filler or get someone to show all the little tricks that make it much more straight forward and easier on the crew/skipper. I don't think you will find the day skipper theory very difficult. The only bit that confused me initially was tides at secondary ports. Once I twigged it was just linear interpolation its quite easy. I always do a paper chart plot before a trip. And I always check the engine stuff before every trip too.

I agree with the others when deciding between shafts and outdrives - stick with shafts initialy - cheap and simple to maintain and shaft drive boats seem to me to be easier to control at low speeds. Dont be afraid of looking at older boats too. 1500 hours is not an issue on marine engines as long as they have had the oil changed. Don't worry to much about the interior or the electronics. The thing to check out is the boat hull and the engines. The rest can be fixed/changed easily.

Last thing when you have your own boat do a basic diesel engine course, and change your own fuel filters so you know how to do it on your own boat in the comfort of your marina. Good luck buying your first boat!

 

[mhph]

Thanks for your replies.In answer to Wiggo,I said I did know what `swmbo` stood for!But you did answer my question re boat hours saying that 50-100 hrs per year was considered about standard.I had no idea on that.
As regards looking at other boats; we have looked at quite a few and at the moment we have decided on the merits of a flybridge (but that may change).Our price range is about £80-£100k and of course I could get a bigger boat useing the size/age equation, but I did want as new as possible,for no other reason that you are possibly less likely to get age related problems,but I may be way off the mark on that, in fact "kashurst" alluded to it.
I didnt know or understand the relationship between the respective merits of shafts/outdrives but will look further into it,thanks for the advice.
Finally I will certainly complete the dayskipper course as I can see the benefits in all sorts of ways of understanding chartwork navigation,it would be irresponsible not to.I was just intrigued to know how many people actually used it in these days of GPS.

 

[hlb]

My boats done 1,800 hours in twenty years if that helps. I've never had an actual engine problem, it's the bits attached to them that break.

As said above, shafts are much cheaper to maintain and handling is far superior to outdrives.

 

[oldgit]

3250 hrs.Engines no problem,just the bits attached.Wish I could say the same about the outdrives,thay need constant and regular attention.

 

[mont]

Hi,
Good to see your doing the training bit - very worthwhile and a good start.
As regards hours there are very few pleasure owned boats that get used enough - regular use is what they want. A boat with low hours would worry me more as the marine enviroment is pretty awful for boat to stand un-used.
GPS is great when it works - which it usually does. When it doesnt (mine went loopy once in the North Sea) good to know you could then turn to your hand held gps for a location (assuming sats aren't down) to get a reference and then on to your chart.
We always on a long passage do a paper plan and plot on long straight runs (out of sight of land and buoys !) waypoints every 8/10 miles and then tick them off. Also have fitted a manual compass as further reference for navigation. When you've had it fail once you learn quickley - mine just started to slowly send me off course un-announced and missed a waypoint - realised very quickly - software glitch.
Foolish to 100% trust GPS that they will always work - thats why your doing chart work !

FWIW We have owned the same outdrive boat for 5 seasons now. Would accept that regular servicing is a must, and an additional expense over shafts, but find the performance (and economy from the innevitable smaller engines fitted in a normally spacious under-cockpit engine bay hatch(s)) is a real plus.
Dont find the close quarters handling at all an issue (I was taught my Dayskip on outdrives) and enjoy the sharper handling at speed. Do like being able to vector sideways with the aid of the bowprop - its been re-invented as £££'s joystick control now !
We are Med based and as mentioned in a previous post subject the med has very active critters. Legs are easily accesible on the stern for me with a mask and snorkel so does save a lot in sub aq divers fees for cleaning shaftdrive props. I've also cleared ropes off my props twice by just lifting legs up and leaning off the bathing platform.
Perhaps I'm against the norm on the forum as regards outdrives.

PS I knew a skipper who hated his outdrives as he just could not control his boat in the Marina and blamed 'them'. He changed onto a shaftdrive boat - his handling ability didnt.

 

[Ripster]

Just been through the same hoop. Upgraded to a 32ft euro FB from a US sports boat. I went for Shafts which I prefer for reasons already stated previously, but choice is then restricted. There is only two of us and an occasional Grand Child so a 32 was big enough. Do have a look at the 36/37s though and compare.