Engine choice

The inaccessibility of the bolts on the Volvo water pumps is just one of the examples of the constraints when working with a base engine that was designed for a different main purpose. The key with water pumps is to have the impeller easily accessible (unlike for example on some Yanmars where it is actually facing aft) and the only place where the drive can come is in that location. On my Nanni, also based on an industrial engine you cannot remove the starter motor without removing the mounting foot on that side. On my old 1GM (which was a dedicated marine engine) the anode is hidden behind the alternator, one of the screws for the water pump face plate is almost impossible to reach behind the pulley. I expect you can find similar issues with most engines.

One of the deciding factors in choosing my latest boat was the superb engine access and neat installation (compared with its competitors). Part of this comes from the wide beam and high cockpit floor, plus being a saildrive it is horizontal and short for its capacity.
 
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Neeves said:
The water pump is on the front of the 2030, same side as the oil filter and fuel filter. The attachment bolts for the pump, which is obviously engine driven, are behind the pump, hidden by the feet by which the engine is bolted to the bed. When you need to change the seals, for the pump, you need to remove the bolts - and they are basically inaccessible from the front. I have been advised that many mechanics actually unbolt the relevant foot - which should never be necessary but implies its not just me that finds it inconvenient.
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But unless you do a huge amount of motoring, this isn't exactly a frequent task. You might equally moan (as others are in another thread) that modern car headlamp bulbs are very difficult to access, another infrequent task.
 
Very true, but it takes about 4 hours and there are better things to do. It would not have taken Volvo much thought, if any, to have arranged that the pump could be disassembled from the front. Equally they must know that multihulls have narrow hulls, where the engines are located, and arranged to move the oil filter to somewhere more accessible - this might have made oil filter change easier for everyone. It might be that they do not think the multihull market important. It should not be necessary to source remote oil filter housings nor remove the feet that hold the engine down in order to conduct simple service roles. Volvo encourage owners to use their appointed service agents - but they must also find it inconvenient and I'm guessing - charge accordingly.

But as PRV notes - all (?) of these engines are built for a whole range of applications and most of them have 'faults', of which he has mentioned a few - so Volvo are not unique.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
Equally they must know that multihulls have narrow hulls, where the engines are located, and arranged to move the oil filter to somewhere more accessible
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But the oil filter location is an inherent part of the base block, which Volvo didn't design. That location probably works very nicely on a small tractor or dumper-truck.

Pete
 
prv said:
But the oil filter location is an inherent part of the base block, which Volvo didn't design. That location probably works very nicely on a small tractor or dumper-truck.

Pete
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It works well on my boat which is a monohull with good side access. In all these things you need to be specific about the boat the engine is going into and do your best to ensure that serivce items are easily accessible. There will be times when that isn't possible and that's when you need to look at different solutions such as remote mounted filters, an electric raw water pump and so on.
The major factor for me is spares availability and expertise on the engine should it go wrong. Waiting days for a part to arrive is one thing: not being able to source one at all is a nightmare.
 
Pete,

I accept all that (on a tractor it would be a perfect location :)) - but Volvo then converted, or modified, the base engine to suit a marine application. Surely its not difficult to marinise and make it convenient.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
I accept all that (on a tractor it would be a perfect location :)) - but Volvo then converted, or modified, the base engine to suit a marine application. Surely its not difficult to marinise and make it convenient.
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Well, you can't really move the oil filter location on the block - it's not a bolted-on accessory like the alternator or the exhaust parts. The only option would be to supply a remote kit just like you and I have fitted. Which I guess they could do, but is it really worth the complication when the existing location clearly works for some boats (like Duncan's), and for those where it doesn't the installer could supply the exact same item fairly cheaply?

Pete
 
Sorry Pete,

I think we are flogging this one to death unnecessarily :). I agree with all of what you say. However way back - I never realised you could get a remote housing, it never crossed my mind. Now that I have one, or 2, it seems so obvious and simple (and mine were cheap). It also seems so obvious and simple I'm surprised Volvo did not offer as an optional extra - it would cost them peanuts (and I'd have paid) - someone will now tell me its an optional extra anyway - but if you do not know they exist, you do not look - hence the value in some of these threads - little gems come out of the woodwork.

Jonathan
 
duncan99210 said:
The major factor for me is spares availability and expertise on the engine should it go wrong. Waiting days for a part to arrive is one thing: not being able to source one at all is a nightmare.
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Yanmar, Volvo and Kubota conversions (Beta, Nanni etc) are almost everywhere, world wide, and Volvo seem to stock spares everywhere, which might be one reason spares are expensive. I might be a bit twitchy over Lombardini - but this might be unfounded as I know nothing about them. The major factor influencing those who have commented has been quality of service (Beta wins hands down, in the UK at least) and whether it fits (commonly this means fit the same, or similar, as whatever is being replaced - its not customer loyalty, but is the same result). I wonder if those that have gone the Beta route were replacing engines that simply had no direct replacement, the original being too old.

Jonathan
 
prv said:
But the oil filter location is an inherent part of the base block, which Volvo didn't design. That location probably works very nicely on a small tractor or dumper-truck.
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If it's a problem, couldn't a remote filter kit be fitted?

RB7116.jpg
 
Neeves said:
Interesting comments.

I had thought there would be more negativity toward Volvo and to a lesser extend Yanmar as their issues come up so frequently on these threads (especially spare parts costs), but possibly their frequency is a function of their market penetration.

I noted Sybarite's post, above, also note the engineers recommendation but Sybarite omitted to mention what, if anything, he actually chose!

Beta shine through. Another comment comes through - some distributors focus more than others on the individual, so Beta shines, Volvo etc all less so.

The other comment that comes through is that replacing like with like, or as close as you can get, minimises (obviously) many issues. But if you are replacing as a result of 'premature' ageing I had thought there might be adverse comment on whatever was there originally. We have Volvos 2020s, 2 of them, and I would certainly be discouraged in replacing like with like (or the 'D' range) simply because of the sheer inconvenience of working on the seawater pump. This is a problem, possibly specific to a multihull, as side access is simply not available as the hulls are too narrow.

But the comment was made, few have enough experience of different engines to pass objective comment, maybe Javelin excepted.

Jonathan
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For me it was a hypothetical question concerning a boat I was interested in. It didn't happen.
 
Neeves said:
Pete,

I accept all that (on a tractor it would be a perfect location :)) - but Volvo then converted, or modified, the base engine to suit a marine application. Surely its not difficult to marinise and make it convenient.

Jonathan
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The base engine on Beta's had the fuel filter on the side - they swung it out and mounted it on the front and if you've got an early engine they'll sell you the kit to mount it on the front of the engine.

Seems to me there are companies that want to make life easier for their customers
 
Crowblack said:
The base engine on Beta's had the fuel filter on the side - they swung it out and mounted it on the front
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Yes, but a fuel filter is attached by moveable external plumbing (often flexible hose), whereas the oil filter mount is machined into the block itself. So moving them is a rather different proposition in each case.

I took the fuel filter off the side of my Volvo (two bolts) and mounted it next to the primary filters in a home-made drip tray:

955FCD92-D553-410E-BFE7-A9912FAA423F_zps1si6amui.jpg


There's room for a plastic jug under the filter being changed and, thanks to the splashback behind the mounts, the dribble from the bleed screw all ends up in the tray where it can be wiped up. Dead easy to change without a drop spilled, and that's better than any on-engine mount whichever way it happens to be facing :p

Pete
 
prv said:
C- for comprehension - both Neeves and I already have such kits fitted, and discussed them (and the possibility of a manufacturer including one) at some length :)
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You were discussing what the marinisers might do. I was pointing out that there are aftermarket alternatives. D-. See me after school.
 
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