Engine choice

[Neeves]

Everybody's helpful when they're trying to sell you something!

'Everybody' - the only one that comes though is Beta.

Your fuel filter arrangement is very neat and could be extended to contain the oil filter as well, its just plumbing (and extending the drip tray). It is difficult to believe that if you made hundreds of them they would be expensive and I'd have thought ideal for the charter fleet - so good market reaction.

We added our remote oil filter housing about 10 years ago but I had to buy all the pieces separately and make up the hoses, not difficult. You can obviously buy it as a kit in the UK - sourcing the housing that fits to the engine and to which the oil filter fit was the difficult part here.

Jonathan

 

[Tranona]

'Everybody' - the only one that comes though is Beta.

Beta were the first company in the UK to specialise in replacement engines. Started by ex Lister personnel who had been unable to convince their employers that there was a future market. Getting Kubota approval was a smart move.

In marketing jargon "first mover" often dominates a market and nobody apart perhaps from Nanni has got anywhere their market position.

Does not mean to say that the others are not equally helpful - just lots of people have Betas in their old(er) boats.

 

[prv]

Your fuel filter arrangement is very neat

I think you're mixing up me and pvb

It is difficult to believe that if you made hundreds of them they would be expensive and I'd have thought ideal for the charter fleet - so good market reaction.

Indeed, the body of the tray could be moulded from plastic very cheaply instead of laid up in fibreglass as I did for a one-off. The strength is in an aluminium plate behind it, into which the filter mounts are bolted (via short lengths of stainless angle) along with the four mounting legs. A manufacturer wanting to save on materials cost could easily replace the solid plate with an open frame. The legs are rubber-mounted (a bit like mini engine feet) because I did this at the same time as the soundproofing and I wondered about the big flat plate picking up sound waves and transferring them past the soundproofing into the bulkhead. No idea if that concern is actually valid.

I'm not about to go into business with an esoteric yacht invention, but if anyone else picks up on the idea and does well out of it I'd appreciate a token payment . Can't be patented now, this post constitutes publication

and could be extended to contain the oil filter as well, its just plumbing (and extending the drip tray).

Yep, the drip tray is a bit of an odd shape to thread its way around the obstructions in our engine bay and to accommodate our particular combination of filters, but it could be any shape really. The oil filter's not included because I'd already done that one a couple of years earlier - maybe if I'd done the whole engine bay in one go it would have ended up with a more logical layout. Still, the oil filter is still pretty easy:

One thing I'm not proud of there is the jubilee clips - they're what came in the kit, but I should really have replaced them and the elbow barbs with hydraulic-style fittings as shown in Jumbleduck's earlier post. Still, the quoted max oil pressure for the kit is well below that of the engine (I checked) and it's shown no signs of movement after two years including runs at max revs and 16 hours at well above normal in order to make a weather window.

Clips apart, it's quite easy and clean to change the filter even without a drip tray. There are two brass rods with pointed ends stored nearby, which fit into drilled holes either side of the filter, and then a small plastic bag is impaled on them. When the filter is unscrewed it drops into the bag, and the inevitable drips that follow it fall in too. After the new filter is fitted, I just unhook the bag, put it into a second (unpunctured) bag and take it ashore for disposal. The black strip below the filter is a label with the filter part number.

To the right is the raw water strainer, well above the waterline so there's no need to close any valves before opening the lid. The clever bit here is the mirror for inspecting the inside since you can't get your head in a position to do so directly.

The green bolt in between them is acting as a plug in the end of the oil drain hose that goes down to a banjo fitting under the bottom of the sump. The cup under it is just to catch any drips, not that there are many. I still use a Pela sucker to empty the oil (have contemplated an electric pump but decided not to bother) but just plug it onto this hose point instead of feeding a narrow tube down the dipstick hole. It empties much faster through the wider hose:

The first time I serviced this engine it took ages, and despite taking great care still spilled loads of oil and diesel into the bilge. Nowadays it's quick, easy, and spills not a drop :encouragement:

Pete

 

[Neeves]

Sorry about the identity mix up, not really excusable!

But I'm really impressed!

I assume those are two fuel filters and you can swap them in case of contamination but continue to run the engine. Our oil remote is also jubilee clips onto barbs. I noted that JumbleDucks fitting was much more professional - I was quite impressed with that as well!

Next time you are Sydney if you can allow me a day of your time you can sort out both of our engine bays .

Jonathan

 

[JumbleDuck]

Who to? Obviously I already know that, since I fitted one three years ago.

To other readers of the thread who, in my innocence, I thought might find it interesting or useful information?

 

[JumbleDuck]

I noted that JumbleDucks fitting was much more professional - I was quite impressed with that as well!

I haven't fitted one myself, but I know people who have done so to Triumph Vitesses and Daimler Darts, both of which have awkward (in the case of the Dart, appalling awkward) oil filter access. Similar fittings between the block and a standard canister filter are used to fit remote oil coolers, and I've see one remote filter adapter (Metro Turbo?) which rather neatly incorporated an oil-water heat exchanger in the adapter body. Not that oil cooling ever seems to be a problem for marine diesels.

 

[Neeves]

JumbleDuck,

As you are here - I think the remote oil filter brilliant. Normally the filter is screwed into the side of the casting. When you remove all the oil left in the filter runs down and into the sump (edit, not sump - the recess under the engine in saildrive installed units close edit). Even if nothing else its really messy. To be able to house the filter vertically and with room beneath to catch the drips (to me) seems both simple and obvious. So to anyone reading this who thinks it blindingly simple as well.

And I appreciate I want to be spoon fed (but I've lost touch with the where is)

Where does one buy the complete kit - Halfords? I confess when last in the UK it did not cross my mind to do any research (on remote oil filters)

They used to use them a lot here, apparently, but they are like hens teeth now -

Jonathan

 

[KellysEye]

I asked a number of engine repair shops in the Caribbean which engine they least had to repair, they all said Yanmar with no other engine close. Generators was Northen Lights with Westerbeke a close second. It's noteworthy that most charter companies have Yanmar engines.

 

[JumbleDuck]

JWhere does one buy the complete kit - Halfords? I confess when last in the UK it did not cross my mind to do any research (on remote oil filters)

Classic car specialists sell them - I pinched that picture from the Rimmer Brothers, where the full listing is at http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RB7116. A search on "remote oil filter" finds lots of other suppliers. Halfords nowadays has some pretty good tools ("Professional" range) but main seems to sell mock carbon-fibre fuel filler covers to the young and stupid.

 

[ex-Gladys]

It's noteworthy that most charter companies have Yanmar engines.

But most charter boats are from builders who fit Yanmar by default...

 

[dom]

My first impression when I saw this installation was, "wow, this is the kind of gold standard installation one only sees in lifeboats and sometimes pilot boats".

My second thought was, "hang on, these guys specify such installations for a reason and that reason applies just as much to us!"

"How to Replicate Such a Setup on Your Own Boat", the makings of a great YM or PBO mini-series I'd say.

 

[RichardS]

But most charter boats are from builders who fit Yanmar by default...

Although, as I mentioned in my post, the volume charter companies like Sunsail/The Moorings develop their own spec in conjuction with the boat builder which the builder then adheres to. The original Leopard cats were Volvo engined but I was told that The Moorings championed the change of spec to Yanmar because their charter boats were spending too much time in the the workshop.

Richard

 

[Neeves]

Even better

They did not specify - they thought it through, did it themselves and then shared.

Jonathan

 

[Tranona]

But most charter boats are from builders who fit Yanmar by default...

Not so. All Bavarias since the late 1990s have Volvo engines, as do most Hanses and some Beneteaus in earlier years.

 

[prv]

My first impression when I saw this installation was, "wow, this is the kind of gold standard installation one only sees in lifeboats and sometimes pilot boats".

You're too kind

Seriously though, it's functional but it's not up to those standards. Partly due to lack of space, and partly due to being assembled piecemeal over a number of years starting with the original builder's installation and then modifications under the previous ownership. If doing it all at once in an empty engine bay, I could make it look and work even better

Probably the biggest single improvement was the installation of those doors - the original bulkhead inexplicably just had a tiny access hatch in the top aft corner, that you could get your head and one arm through. I took that bulkhead out and made a new one that's almost all door; the doors also lift off their hinges if required for even better access. I had to get the plywood made specially by Robins in Bristol as nobody seems to sell cherry veneer ply any more, only MDF . The regulation (for interior work) seven coats of Epifanes - top two rubbed-effect - and it's a very close match indeed to the original joinery.

Pete

 

[prv]

Where does one buy the complete kit - Halfords?

Halfords?!?

They're adequate for basic service parts like oil, filters, and windscreen wipers, and I have no comment on their tools as I have a Machine Mart nearby instead, but most of their floor area is given over to tacky "travel accessories" and silly "boy racer" modifications, lights, and thumpa-thumpa stereos.

I just googled for "remote oil filter" and bought it online like any normal person in 2013

Pete

 

[Ceirwan]

I'd say filter access on the MTUs at work is probably as good as it gets.

Not sure if you'd be able to fit one in our boats though!

 

[prv]

I'd say filter access on the MTUs at work is probably as good as it gets.

Horizontal filters, though, so they must still spill a load of oil as you unscrew them?

Pete

 

[Ceirwan]

Horizontal filters, though, so they must still spill a load of oil as you unscrew them?

Pete

Surprisingly not, its not very clear but they have a slight downward tilt.
We lose a bit, but its all contained in the integral drip tray, and we just rag out whatever comes out.

 

[Kwik Decision]

Rather late to this thread, but to answer the OPs original questions, we re-engined 2 yrs ago, and considered the following:
New engine must be a familiar brand, which, should we want to sell in a few yrs time, potential purchasers will be happy with.
It must have the water pump and fuel filter located on the front so they are easily acessable and changeable at sea. Ideally the oil filter will be here as well.
It must fit easily in the existing space, and be easy to fit.
Then came price considerations.

We talked to all the major engine suppliers at the boat show before (like many replying to this thread) settling on a Beta; the 25 for our boat. While I'm sure 20 hp would have been fine, the difference in price, size and weight for the 25 was tiny. Beta were the most helpful, and keen company we spoke to, their price was competitive (more or less the same as Nanni, and a little cheaper than Yanmar), they had supplied new engines for a number of other Sadler 29s and the layout of the engine was good (with the bonus of the fitted oil pump, which makes oil changes very easy). It helped that TS marine, the main Beta agents in the Solent, are based at Universal Marina. They also did a fitting package whereby they did the heavy and technical stuff, and I did all the plumbing, wireing etc. This was half the price of getting them to do the full installation, and means I'm now familiar with the engine. Very happy with both the engine, and the service from TS marine. Only had one minor issue, with the engine gradually losing coolant. When I mentioned this to Scott at TS marine, he said it was probably the cap leaking a little, and gave me a new one, which sorted the problem.

If we had not had the funds to buy and fit the Beta, we would have continued with the old Bukh, rather than buy a cheaper but unknown engine.