Engine Arguments

Re: The market in action

These days, manufacturing isn’t done on a wing and a prayer. Or if it is, the company is quickly found out. Marine applications are completely unforgiving. The larger corporations, Volvo included, have systems which are designed to remove risk. It just doesn’t pay them to take chances. The outcome can be highly damaging as these web-sites show:
http://www.btopenwoe.co.uk/
http://www.ntlhell.co.uk/
http://www.pardoes.com/cellnet/
That doesn’t answer Kev’s question although perhaps you put your finger on it “boat builder….gotta give the market what it…wants”. I know nothing about your type of boat but I read the info about inappropriate hull design and it’s impact on engine longevity in yachtsurvey.com and I begin to wonder whether Volvo might not be entirely to blame or is that bolx?
 
Re: the case for Volvo

ah no. But the basic theme of sports saloon was first as t2000, then fruitified as 2.5PI, and then willfully stolen by the erstwhile cuckoo clock makers of bavaria. As far as I know, no other part of any BMW is ex-triumph.
 
Re: the case for Volvo

Shame - I could have got quite a few friends going with that one!

Maybe all is not lost - did they really used to make cuckoo clocks?
 
What a good idea - I develop major web sites for a living and would be happy to put up such a site based upon a proper dynamic database design. It would only take me an evening to do and I have my own server farm to stick it on.

If you want me to do this, it could be up in a week and would allow anyone to enter their data that would be instantly live, cross referenced etc.

Just give me the go ahead and it will be done. Everyone can comment on its design, which I can change very quickly to suit the job.


Paul
 
Re: the case for BMW

Yes agree it's questionable why BMW so admired. Mostly marketing I spect, image stuff. I mean, BMW and Merc had a reasonable qwality product, but positioned it marketing wise as top draw, early on. This despite most Mercs actually being taxis (it seems). But, hey, the current BMs not that bad. Merc will still not have a 400hp+ saloon till the next generation of E class, whereas BM been offering one for about 3 years now... :-)
 
Yep lets have a site. But not just about the bits that break. But also the cost of replacing them. Oh and whats special about Volvo oil and which special oil well does it come from!! Why when you complain about Volvo gear boxes, do they say. "I'm surprised it lasted that long". Why dose it cost me nine grand to replace two gearboxes that only go backwards and folwards. How come I've got machines at work, that have been going round every day since 1965. Without volvo oil. The whole machines only cost a few hundred quid and produce thousands of tons of pressure. Even if they do break one day. It's down to the engineers for a few new cogs and bearings and all ok again for fifty quid or less.

No one can force me to come here-----------
----- I'm a Volunteer!!!

Haydn
 
Hi Barry,

I sometimes wonder if the Leisure Marine market is Volvo's priorty, they supply probably more commerical "Marine" engines e.g. Generators for Buildings, Shipping etc.

RM.
 
Volvo's web site is split into two sections, Lesuire and Commercial. Altho some engines appear on both sites, but on the commercial site is rated at a lower horse power.

If Volvo aim most of their output at "industrial" application, why do they discount so heavily for the lesuire boat builders. Volvo are only interested in profit. Cant argue with that, I run my own business, but the way they go about it is all wrong regarding the cost of parts etc. For example. Headset from marine division for AQ145, which is a B23 engine. £177 and a few pennys. Headset for a volvo 740 which uses the same B23 engine £86 and a few odd pennys. Now both the sets of gaskets are produced by a 3rd party, not volvo, Purchase same set from 3rd party and it costs £27. So how do they warrant the difference between the car and the boat. They even have the same part number same packing and come from the same supplier. In short their just ripping the arse out of it!!

Smile. its only money!
 
Re: the case for Volvo

Volvo came to the fore in the 80's, not because they offered a package that was not bad. At the time the main opposition was BMW and Mercruiser in the stern drive market, and they were at the best poor. We here moaning about some Volvo engines, but not that much on the stern drives, so by changing engines you are changing the stern drive, in 5 years time what state is it going to be in. Now we here about Yanmar, but in 10 years time are they still going to be the same, larger the number, larger the number of failures, are the stern drives going to last. I have heard some comment on the power band of the Yanmar, ok for cars, but to high for a boat, time will tell.

Do we get rid of stern drive and go for prop shafts, far bigger choice of engines ?


Brian
 
Re: the case for Merc

ah but will the merc version have the quick-release main bearings? Taxi-wise, isn't this your market in action? I mean, there's obviously a massive demand for bog-basic mercs with plastic seats for use as taxis, so they makem. Engineering-wise it's a big achievement for BMW to be referred in same breath as "Merc and BMW" when in fact 100,000mile BMW is worth nearly nothing even in Brixton, and all the old taxis are mercs (or japanese estate cars) .
 
Re: image

Estate car taxi - Ouch! <G>

Yes agree the taxi thing is market in action. My point though is how clever the marketing is. Merc is clearly an upmarket brand, no question about it, yet they achieve that despite also making big £££ from selling millions of down market cars, namely the bog-horrid plastic seated E class taxis all over W Europe. That's pretty smart imho, and/or we the customer (me included) easily duped. OK Merc also have the foundation of decent engineering but that is perhaps not what pimarily sells cars, image and qwality feel is what sells em mostly......
 
Re: image - a UK disease?

It's not just western europe. Africa and elsewhere. But in all of these cases they are happy with flat white or black. Further up the scale, those more globetrotty than me can praps confirm how few monster "loaded" cars there are in maincities, london/se uk excepted. At least half cars sold in europe are urgh poor-image diesels, and nowehre near as much intense "need" for aircon leather etc etc.

And the same goes for boats! So we have swoopy fairlines and sunseeker, wahey it looks the absolute biz and (a bit) bollox to the engineering.

Not sure where this takes the argument. Shouldn't buy minimal engineering item and expect fab reliability, praps? Why on earth would volvo be able to make decent engines anyway? Surely germans with intense congenital attention and inventors of diesel engine (MAN) more likely candidates?
 
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