Emergency oxygen onboard

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AHoy2

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Having just experienced a situation where I required an oxygen feed at short notice, it set me thinking about possible options for an emergency oxygen supply onboard when cruising. It is possible that arrival of professional medical attention may be hours rather than minutes away and oxygen may be an immedate requirement for a casualty. I have found portable 12v units capable of supplying up to 3l/m continuously but at a prohibitive price for an emergency facility. Cylinder options seem aimed at patients on NHS systems or athletes requiring a quick O2 boost.

Anyone already solved the problem?

AHoy2
 
You could try having a chat with a scuba club/dive shop with a boat - they should carry emergency oxygen. Do the RNLI carry emergency oxygen? Issues around training to administer it, getting cylinders recharged, sometimes treated as a drug, e.g. in the NHS...
 
I agree it would be handy to have on board, though I can guess at various bureaucratic snags, not least regarding fires.

I wonder if the mountaineers have something handy and vagueley affordable ?
 
Seajet said:
I wonder if the mountaineers have something handy and vagueley affordable ?
Click to expand...

No need for it in UK of course, whereas divers commonly carry oxygen for first-aid of decompression sickness. That would be the market to look at, I think.

Or there's oxy-fuel welding, of course :)

Pete

EDIT: here's a diving magazine article listing some kits. Not cheap, but they don't mention any restrictions on carrying or using them.
 
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Oxygen is prescribed as a drug within the NHS. This may seem strange but is for a very good reason. Someone who has chronic asthma, bronchitis or emphesema may have an altered response to oxygen. Most of us breath because our carbon dioxide levels are high. Others breath because their oxygen level is too low.

Sounds the same but there is a crucial difference. I will continue to breath when given oxygen as I will always produce carbon dioxide which is my breathing trigger. The chronic emphasemic/asthmatic/bronchitic may stop breathing when given too much oxygen as the trigger for breathing is taken away.

If you wish to carry oxygen in case of emergencies, you should ensure that you have had some training in using it.
 
Emergency Oxygen onboard

Ahoy AHoy2,
sorry to hear you needed some extra puff - hope condition improves - plenty of sea air may not help medically but will be nicer than land air methinks!
Have you seen the First Aid Responder back- pack type kits which have a small re-chargeable Oxygen bottle and rebreather mask? Kits are 3 or 4 hundred quid - ouch - but may be money well spent perhaps. Have a look at SP Services - they have just about everything a medic could ever need - http://www.spservices.co.uk/

Cheers,
Robin

Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5
 
Definitely get some training and not just from the medical perspective - I remember a case where the navigator of a Phantom had a fire in the cockpit - the grease from his Cheese butty ignited when he was eating it while handling his oxygen mask (which decided to blow O2 for some reason). Not sure if medical cylinders are rechargable or if you would need forced O2 as opposed to an on-demand system. Many business airports used to hold supplies of breathing O2 for recharging cylinders - don't know if they still do. It was never cheap stuff but damn good at curing hangovers.
 
You can get oxygen sets designed for emergency use by divers. They will deliver close to 100% and have the advantage that they use a demand valve rather than open circuit. Without the valve even a large cylinder will empty very quickly. BSAC used to run short courses on the use of the system. the cylinders used to exchanged at the local BOC depot. It is however worth noting that the medical approach to oxygen is changing and is generally guided by measuring oxygen saturations whereas it I used to be given far more freely. Oxygen can also cause very significant problems in people with chronic chest disease such as cold
 
for trauma you are supposed to give 12-15litres per minute via mask with reservoir bag. it is a prescription only drug, for the reasons above.

the reservoir bag won't fill until about 8litres per minute. using the mask/bag at this flow rate is not what you are supposed to do, but if you only have so much oxygen its the least worst option.

so would have to be a hefty compressor to give that flow rate.

mountains - rely on mrt's having many bottles of oxygen, thankfully now in carbon fibre bottles. each bottle 12-25mins only tho! or helicopters/ambulances carry large J cylinders

major fire hazard. needs regular checking etc.

qood question tho, but personally would not be keen on oxygen on board, cos unless i had a lot of small cylinders or a couple of large ones, unlikely to make any difference to the casualty, for that (hopefully) once in a lifetime need to use it. a vhf radio is more likely to be useful, smaller, lighter and safer etc :-)
 
From another angle ----- Obviously we dont know why you need oxygen an hopefully its not too serious but should you be sailing at the moment with such a problem ?
 
ANy medical emergency on board prompts thoughts of how you would cope if...

I would have thought for blue water cruising where you may be days away from help, then gear like O2 and defibrillator would be life saving additions to the emergency pack. But within the normal range of European coastal waters well equipped SAR facilities, you could probably rely on them turning up in time. Yes, probably. There's always the scenario where life saving medical gear aboard could make the difference. But that's part of the hazard of our sport.

we calculate the risk levels and equip ourselves accordingly: LJs are regarded as essential: in 50 years I have never actually needed mine - yet! Flares? ditto. I have spent a small fortune over the years on equipment I have never ever used. So with the hopefully much lower risk of medical emergency, how far do you go to prepare? I am trained to use a Defibrillator, but I dont possess one.

On the other hand if someone aboard has a known medical condition, it makes sense to carry any equipment he might need with regard to the distance away from help you plan to go. An asthmatic for example would be foolish to go afloat without his puffers and any other equipment that might be needed to deal with a severe attack.

Lt Col John Davies , late HM of Chichester harbour died of a coronary while out sailing in the Harbour. If he had had a defib machine and Oxygen on board his X boat, would he have survived?

Further afield - blue water cruising for example, then the more emergency medical kit you can carry, the better - as long as someone knows how to use it!
 
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Thanks all for the helpfull replies.

On a personal basis I am well on the mend from what was hopefully a one-off-event. I contracted severe viral and bacterial infections and pneumonia, but thought I was fighting off flu so didn't visit the Doc! It hit me that I had a problem when I came to a complete halt physically and breathing response didn't feel right. Apparently my blood/oxygen level (SpO2) had fallen to 83% (with temperature at 39.1C and resting heartrate of 114).

After some excellent care by the medics at Salisbury Hospital, including four days on oxygen and having a concoction of anti-biotics pumped into me I was on the mend. No go-home ticket though until my SpO2 level was 95% on air with no oxygen over the previous 24hrs.

Although I hope never to need oxygen again my experience set me thinking how the unlikely but maybe essential situation of an oxygen supply could be catered for on a cruising yacht, hence my OP.

The other big realisation for me was that although I have test equipment for all manner of electronic and mechanical sytems we possessed nothing for basic testing of a human being. My wife and I have never been seriously ill throughout our lives and have never felt the the need to "check the system" so didn't even possess a thermometer. "Test equipment" now purchased at very reasonable prices and norms established.

re. NornaBiron
Thanks for highlighting the conditions you listed and the need for a different response. I would expect any crew with such a condition to notify me (skipper) when joining the boat. Hopefully medical advice would be available by radio.

re. clyst
I am medically cleared to resume normal activities as I feel it appropriate re. strength and stamina. Going to start with a laze about in the cockpit ;>)

After following some of the suggestions on here I am thinking something on the lines of this would meet my requirement:

http://shop.lifesignsgroup.co.uk/emox-portable-oxygen-kit-19-p.asp
 
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glad you are getting better after your pneumonia

good point re "test equipment" - ie thermometer and your eyes/fingers. sats probes are expensive and several potential pitfalls/inaccurate readings

as you say basics like temp, resp rate and pulse. worth learning how do to this. ie a first aid course. the medical chapter in "sas survival" type books are actually quite good for the medical stuff ie brief and to the point. ABC etc. but a first aid course will show you how to do it.

medical advice not always available via radio, what if mast down, or no one else but the casualty can use the radio? tho coastal sailing you can possibly/probably use a mobile. again modern mobiles have short battery life.

similarly do not rely on helo's etc - weather/diverted to their primary role (military aircrew SAR)/malfunctions/fuel etc

the oxygen apparatus you linked to - interesting - tho may need to take more than one? eg 45mins phone to air time for helo's at night (tho they are always a lot quicker that is their maximum) and as above personally i think its wrong to rely on a helo, as it may never come.

not sure about taking more kit for offshore passages - what do you do when the oxygen runs out? or when the person you've defibbed goes into abnormal cardiac rthymns/low blood pressure etc? even inshore sailing i would not take a defib, significant safety issues, post defib frequently patients need ITU or CCU type care. defibs are a great idea for urban areas, with quick response time from ambulance to whisk the patinet to the nearest hospital. they are good for monitoring cardiac rthymns though.

the above is my thoughts for sailing on west coast scotland ie usually a lot further from hospitals than say solent
 
Having access to oxygen might be helpful in certain emergency situations on a boat but in some cases might cause harm, so absolutely some knowledge or training is required.

I was involved in technical diving and always had tanks of oxygen, mainly used in decompression but also for first aid in case of decompression sickness. However for other medical emergencies the need and safety of oxygen use is not clear.

Breathing hyperoxic gas causes vasoconstriction which will in most cases lead to higher blood pressure. In some medical emergencies this is the wrong thing to do. Having oxygen on board could be helpful and if you can fill a standard diving tank (relatively easy in the US), not too costly. But use with care. Best to get medical advise on the radio if you are not sure or not medically trained on when administering oxygen is the correct thing to do.
 
Absolutely the best O2 solution I have come across is the 'Mountain High' pulse demand system. Kevlar wrapped ali bottles. Very light and corrosion proof. Runs off a couple of penlight batteries. The O2 is administered via cannula or lightweight mask and a box of tricks detects the first intake of breath and delivers a bolus of O2 at the point it will be delivered deepest to the lungs. The net result is a very economical use of O2.

Designed for high altitude mountaineering and flying the system is altitude compensated and switches on automatically at 10 000' msl but there is a setting for 'night' use where the O2 is delivered regardless of altitude.

Welding O2 in the UK is as pure as Medical or Aviation O2 and I used to have a 3000psi cylinder that I cross filled my own flight cylinder with.

Mountain high systems are not cheap unfortunately but I have used them at up to 30 000' for several hours and where a fault could have you unconscious within 3 minutes or less.

http://www.mhoxygen.com/ around $1000 for a full setup.
 
AHoy2 said:
Thanks all for the helpfull replies.

On a personal basis I am well on the mend from what was hopefully a one-off-event. I contracted severe viral and bacterial infections and pneumonia, but thought I was fighting off flu so didn't visit the Doc! It hit me that I had a problem when I came to a complete halt physically and breathing response didn't feel right. Apparently my blood/oxygen level (SpO2) had fallen to 83% (with temperature at 29.1C and resting heartrate of 114).

After some excellent care by the medics at Salisbury Hospital, including four days on oxygen and having a concoction of anti-biotics pumped into me I was on the mend. No go-home ticket though until my SpO2 level was 95% on air with no oxygen over the previous 24hrs.

Although I hope never to need oxygen again my experience set me thinking how the unlikely but maybe essential situation of an oxygen supply could be catered for on a cruising yacht, hence my OP.

The other big realisation for me was that although I have test equipment for all manner of electronic and mechanical sytems we possessed nothing for basic testing of a human being. My wife and I have never been seriously ill throughout our lives and have never felt the the need to "check the system" so didn't even possess a thermometer. "Test equipment" now purchased at very reasonable prices and norms established.

re. NornaBiron
Thanks for highlighting the conditions you listed and the need for a different response. I would expect any crew with such a condition to notify me (skipper) when joining the boat. Hopefully medical advice would be available by radio.

re. clyst
I am medically cleared to resume normal activities as I feel it appropriate re. strength and stamina. Going to start with a laze about in the cockpit ;>)

After following some of the suggestions on here I am thinking something on the lines of this would meet my requirement:

http://shop.lifesignsgroup.co.uk/emox-portable-oxygen-kit-19-p.asp
Click to expand...


I am medically cleared to resume normal activities as I feel it appropriate re. strength and stamina. Going to start with a laze about in the cockpit ;>)
Click to expand...

Glad you are now ok Ahoy !! Dont laze about in the cockpit too long or you will morph into a MOBO 'er .
biggrin.gif
 
nimbusgb said:
Absolutely the best O2 solution I have come across is the 'Mountain High' pulse demand system. Kevlar wrapped ali bottles. Very light and corrosion proof. Runs off a couple of penlight batteries. The O2 is administered via cannula or lightweight mask and a box of tricks detects the first intake of breath and delivers a bolus of O2 at the point it will be delivered deepest to the lungs. The net result is a very economical use of O2.

Designed for high altitude mountaineering and flying the system is altitude compensated and switches on automatically at 10 000' msl but there is a setting for 'night' use where the O2 is delivered regardless of altitude.

Welding O2 in the UK is as pure as Medical or Aviation O2 and I used to have a 3000psi cylinder that I cross filled my own flight cylinder with.

Mountain high systems are not cheap unfortunately but I have used them at up to 30 000' for several hours and where a fault could have you unconscious within 3 minutes or less.

http://www.mhoxygen.com/ around $1000 for a full setup.
Click to expand...

good for high altitude, and minimising oxygen use, but too low a flow rate for trauma/seriously unwell patients. i have one in the garage. but they are a much more elegant use of oxygen than the rebreather bag. (they only release the oxygen when you inspire, thus doing away with the need for the reservoir bag, which doesn't work very well anyway.) mmm, there's a thought.
 
AHoy2 said:
Having just experienced a situation where I required an oxygen feed at short notice, it set me thinking about possible options for an emergency oxygen supply onboard when cruising. It is possible that arrival of professional medical attention may be hours rather than minutes away and oxygen may be an immedate requirement for a casualty. I have found portable 12v units capable of supplying up to 3l/m continuously but at a prohibitive price for an emergency facility. Cylinder options seem aimed at patients on NHS systems or athletes requiring a quick O2 boost.

Anyone already solved the problem?

AHoy2
Click to expand...

When I did my 'Ships capt medical', the Consultant examiner, had a 'thing' about having oxygen onboard, in case of fractured scull treatment, so its not simply for existing conditions.
 
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