electronic displays in the cockpit?

[pvb]

My last boat had a 12" radar/plotter mounted under the sprayhood - visible from the helm, or from the cockpit seats. It was a pretty good solution, but not all boats have a suitable position under the sprayhood. The next boat will have a smaller plotter sited closer to the helm, not sure how well I'm going to like that.

 

[Ric]

worth a chat, I feel
Here's my take, very very occasionally it's absolutely fantastic to have everything in front of your eyeballs at the helm. AIS, chart, radar.. the lot.

What you think?

At the binnacle I just have a tridata, wind, and autopilot control head. I have a Raymarine E65 down below. But as you say, sometimes it is very useful to have radar, plotter and AIS at the helm, especially when going into an anchorage single-handed at night. I thus have an iPad in a waterproof case which clips to the binnacle and emulates and controls the E65 for these occasions. I can view radar, plotter and AIS, either separately or all overlaid on the iPad.

A roving MFD like this is the way forward - very useful all around the boat. I can view it also when sitting elsewhere in the cockpit, or even when in my berth.

 

[prv]

How does that sort of layout work in bad weather or at night? It looks as if it would be rather exposed.

Indeed.

My layout works in various conditions and numbers of crew, but a particular scenario I had in mind when designing it was a single person on watch, on a rainy night, crossing the shipping lanes back from France. By sitting in the top of the companionway, he's warm and dry under the sprayhood, with a good view ahead and to the sides through the glass windscreen (and astern directly). The AIS display is at his fingertips on the left side, the radar similarly positioned on the right. Compass binos (for correlating visual with AIS/radar targets) are handy on the cabin top in front of the displays. Nobody is stuck out in the rain behind the wheel, and any course changes required are made using the wireless autopilot remote in its little holder mounted alongside the instruments. Short of an actual wheelhouse, it's hard to come up with a better place to stand a watch.

All that remains is a bit of woodwork for the little companionway seat, but the layout has worked well for a handful of crossings now, sitting at the forward end of the normal side bench.

Pete

 

[Angele]

worth a chat, I feel
Here's my take, very very occasionally it's absolutely fantastic to have everything in front of your eyeballs at the helm. AIS, chart, radar.. the lot.
But most of the time you don't need all that and what happens is you stare at the gadgets and lose the situational awareness inside your head about where you are and what's happening with the tide etc.

I have a chartplotter in front of the helmsman (plus other sailing instruments) and another at the chart table.

A few years back, son no. 1 was helming and I watched him staring intently at the plotter to the exclusion of all else. I suggested he only glance at it occasionally, to assist in situational awareness, as the most important information for the helmsman came from looking around - observing other boats, for example, to check for the risk of collision.

"That is your job, Dad," came the response.

Not much you can say to that....

.... I think it is the effect of the computer gaming generation.

 

[johnalison]

I have mine laid out as I want but we all sail in different ways and I don't suppose more than a few people would enjoy my answer to the problem.

I have my plotter/radar/AIS in the cabin and as well as the usual, a graphic repeater above the hatch. This usually displays bearing and distance to waypoint plus COG & SOG, which is all I need when on passage since I will have set up a detailed route. If I really want to view the plotter, I can use my iPad to pick up wifi from the e7, which is occasionally useful, with a waterproof case if necessary.

 

[westhinder]

I inherited the setup I work with from the original owner who sailed mostly singlehanded.
Across the companionway the usual wind, depth and speed on dedicated displays. Next to the companionway, under the sprayhood is a C120 chartplotter, so that all the navigational info is visible to all in the cockpit, including the helm. I find that having the plotter there increases siatuational awareness for everyone and is very useful if you need to make quick changes to the navigation. Also next to the companionway is a mount for a handbearing compass. Just inside the companionway is the VHF handset and the remote control for the autopilot. This way you have everything at your disposal to keep a good watch sheltered from the elements.
At the binnacle there is the main steering compass and an older generation plotter/radar, which is no longer used for charts, but normally only serves as a repeater for wind, depth, speed, SOG. It is still the only radar screen. The main control for the autopilot is next to the helm.
If and when the time comes to update the instruments I think I would make only two changes: the main plotter under the sprayhood would have to have radar and AIS overlay. Hand steering and keeping a radar watch is a nearly impossible combination. And I would add another mike for the VHF at the binnacle, for when I enter harbour and have to contact harbour master or other ships while steering.

 

[prv]

If and when the time comes to update the instruments I think I would make only two changes: the main plotter under the sprayhood would have to have radar and AIS overlay. Hand steering and keeping a radar watch is a nearly impossible combination. And I would add another mike for the VHF at the binnacle, for when I enter harbour and have to contact harbour master or other ships while steering.

You would then end up with something very similar to what I have :encouragement:. Great minds think alike

(Seriously though, John is right when he says we all sail differently and have different ways of doing things, and that's as it should be.)

Pete

 

[GHA]

....... watched him staring intently at the plotter to the exclusion of all else. I suggested he only glance at it occasionally, to assist in situational awareness,.........

That's a downside of chart displays in the cockpit I thought more people would comment on, the problem is you look at them

I find a similar effect driving with sat nav, you tend to not have a map going in you up head so much and let the device do all the work.

 

[William_H]

Well it is all about sailing style where you sail and what the place is like that you sail in. On my little boat as an extreme I have a compass on the bulkhead which has not been used in years. And then only to check tacking angles. I have a hh GPS which only goes on the boat for night races and then only used to find specific buoys. Unlit of course.
I don't have depth guage wind speed or direction or any of that stuff. Perhaps I just sail in familiar waters. But it is all about looking at the horizon and the sails. I think anyone around here who needs chart plotters wind instruments etc etc are just kidding them selves. Just another point of view olewill

 

[johnphilip]

My reason for liking binnacle mounted plotter.

Much easier to cut corners if the helm can see the depths and contours.
On the East coast there are many opportunities to cut across shoaler waters and save considerable distance. Without someone watching the track I would be unlikely to take some of the time saving paths. With no-one available or wanting to sit at the chart table all the time a binnacle display allows the helm to pilot easily.
Good example the other day.
Fetching out of the Blackwater North bound keeping close inshore and close to the wind we carried the tack miles further than those who "correctly" bore off around the Colne bar and buoys and lost half a mile of windward gauge. I find that keeping an eye on the blue contours is simple and not distracting from helming but part of it.

If in-putting to the plotter it is indeed distracting and it's worth putting George in control to save inadvertant sweeping off course while you set a new route or whatever.

 

[jwilson]

Fully agree - you may as well not have them if the helmsman cannot see them.

+1 when you are coming into an unfamiliar bit of water when singlehanded it is a real help to have a plotter right in front of the helm. And everyone seems to end up effectively singlehanded at times.

If whats on the plotter screen agrees with the eyeball, fine: if it doesn't you can always stop and find out why. Once I've already been somewhere on GPS/plotter it's trustable, till then it's an aid, but a very good one indeed.

You can do without all the electronics, but life is nice with them, and the two that matter are echosounder and plotter. A GPS on it's own is a blunt instrument, though long ago pre-GPS when I was once closing land after a prolonged storm and had a 50 mile or so doubt over my position I'd have sold my soul for one.

 

[lustyd]

I just don't see the physical act of steering as being in any way incompatible with "keeping a radar lookout"

Looking at the RADAR screen while helming is very easy. The problem comes with correctly interpreting the information, and there are a few incidents where RADAR has aided collision because what's shown on the screen isn't what's happening in real life. It's much harder to account for your own movement while also helping and so the natural reaction would be to assume the other boat's trajectory is as the display shows.

I'm not saying that a single hander is better off not seeing or having a RADAR in fog, but I definitely agree with Pete that it's difficult to keep an effective watch while helping. The above is covered heavily on the RYA RADAR course including specific examples of RADAR assisted collisions.

 

[maby]

Looking at the RADAR screen while helming is very easy. The problem comes with correctly interpreting the information, and there are a few incidents where RADAR has aided collision because what's shown on the screen isn't what's happening in real life. It's much harder to account for your own movement while also helping and so the natural reaction would be to assume the other boat's trajectory is as the display shows.

I'm not saying that a single hander is better off not seeing or having a RADAR in fog, but I definitely agree with Pete that it's difficult to keep an effective watch while helping. The above is covered heavily on the RYA RADAR course including specific examples of RADAR assisted collisions.

Possibly, but that is not quite what Pete was saying - he seemed to be implying that looking at a plotter screen made him wander off course :

"If I have to concentrate on something inside the boat for any length of time, I generally start wandering off course."

I do agree that radar is difficult to interpret and there is a danger of attaching too much importance to it.

 

[lustyd]

Possibly, but that is not quite what Pete was saying - he seemed to be implying that looking at a plotter screen made him wander off course :

"If I have to concentrate on something inside the boat for any length of time, I generally start wandering off course."

I do agree that radar is difficult to interpret and there is a danger of attaching too much importance to it.

There's definitely an element of that, although I don't find that happens with AIS because I don't need to think about it or interpret it. RADAR on the other hand, even when there are no other boats, I get quite absorbed in the reading of the tealeaves and working out if that fuzz over there is the harbour wall...then I look up and I'm 90 degrees off course

 

[pmagowan]

I stuck a 15 inch harming plotter down below on the main bulkhead of my 28' boat. It is protected there and visible from the helm. The screen is large enough for it to be easily seen. If I need more detail I can take out my iPhone and use navonics. This is particularly useful for reading notes on lights etc like number and frequency of flashes. System works for me but I don't single hand (yet) so always have someone to adjust the plotter if needs be.

 

[maby]

There's definitely an element of that, although I don't find that happens with AIS because I don't need to think about it or interpret it. RADAR on the other hand, even when there are no other boats, I get quite absorbed in the reading of the tealeaves and working out if that fuzz over there is the harbour wall...then I look up and I'm 90 degrees off course

Surely if you set your plotter to display a radar overlay on the map and set the screen orientation to "Heading Up", most of that goes away? The screen pretty much corresponds with what your eyes will see if you look up - if the near-in resolution of the radar were good enough, you should be able to steer from the screen alone - ok, it isn't but you see what I mean?

If you are one of those purists who insists on having the plotter set to "North Up", then I can accept that confusion could set in...

 

[nicho]

As much information in front of you as possible, surely. In the Piper Archer I fly, I would not have the instruments/chart plotter etc in the rear of the aircraft, and keep hopping over the back to check on position and to check which way up I am in cloud! Makes no sense in my view to have it in the nav station on a boat, unless you have a VERY reliable navigator to point the way in tight situations and/or poor viz/fog.

 

[sailorman]

As much information in front of you as possible, surely. In the Piper Archer I fly, I would not have the instruments/chart plotter etc in the rear of the aircraft, and keep hopping over the back to check on position and to check which way up I am in cloud! Makes no sense in my view to have it in the nav station on a boat, unless you have a VERY reliable navigator to point the way in tight situations and/or poor viz/fog.

Most folk when on a long passage sit ahead of a wheel so binnacle mounted instruments cannot be seen.
steering an aircraft @ 180kts is quite a different from a cruising yacht @ 7kts with an auto pilot doing the steering

 

[westhinder]

Most folk when on a long passage sit ahead of a wheel so binnacle mounted instruments cannot be seen.
steering an aircraft @ 180kts is quite a different from a cruising yacht @ 7kts with an auto pilot doing the steering

You're right on where you tend to sit on long passages. That's why I prefer to have the main instruments under the sprayhood and a repeater at the binnacle. But if the choice is between a plotter/radar/ais at the chart table or under the sprayhood, there is no contest. I used to have the GPS at the chart table on my previous boat and I kept jumping up and down.

 

[Hypocacculus]

I too used to have that touching faith in chart plotters but they are only as good as the incoming data. One in Greece showed us sailing directly over the top of Skorpios, out by several hundred yards. A Yachtmaster instructor pointed out that our supa dupa up to date electronic chart was based on soundings taken in 1890something and that in an area of sandbanks and shifting channels. We were given a short, grumpy lesson on the danger of navigating the chart rather than the reality. We use our chartplotter to give us the gist of where we are, but for actual on the spot coastal nav, echosounder and eyeball every time. We have subsequently seen first hand that the plotter is unreliable finding deep channels in our home waters so I wouldn't treat it as infallible anywhere else.

What's wrong with dashing up and down the companionway anyway? We all need more exercise!