Electrical help isolating switches etc

Richard D

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I have a 32 foor wooden boat and am experiencing problems with the batteries going flat. I am a nuts bolts and gearwheels guy but electrics have me beat and need advice. When I got the boat in july I was told it had had a new isolation switch but had my doubts it was wired right, as certain things seemed to work when, to my mind, on the wrong position but as everything I needed to work, did work I put it out of my mind.
I now have to do something and need some answers to the following questions.

1) Even in the off position I have a drain of over 1 amp

2) When on position 1 what systems besides the engine starting systems should be on, I have a drain of 2.7 amps on this circuit

3) On position 2 what should be on besides cabin lights, on poss 2 only, I have .67 amps drain, with from what i can see is everything off.

4) The isolator switch is switching off the negative power, the live system 1 wire going to the starter solenoid, is this the usual on an earth return system.

5) The wires going to the isolator switch are about half the size of all the main battery leads, I have not traced them to the battery as they go under some wood work that makes easy tracing difficult with out major deconstruction, I have found a metal electrical box with wires of a similar size coming out of it, is it possible the isolator wires go to this box and so control things without the need for wires as big a the positive battery leads. Also any idea what is this box supposed to do.

6) The radar seems to be on all the time when not in the off isolating position, is this correct and what would be the norrmal power to make it work.

7) There are many wires piggy backed onto the main battery clamps both engine and system 2, is this normal. 2 I have isolated are the auto bilge pump and the wind generator, which I presume would be normal.

8) Last year I met a guy who swore by this manual that was specifically for solving boat electric problems said it cost about £40 any idea of the name of it.

9) With it in off, syst 1 syst 2 or all, I cant hear or see any equipment in operation apart from the radar.

Regards Richard

Sorrt this is so long, hopefully I can solve some folks mech problems.
 
7) There are many wires piggy backed onto the main battery clamps both engine and system 2, is this normal. 2 I have isolated are the auto bilge pump and the wind generator, which I presume would be normal.
.

Without a shadow of doubt this is your number one culprit and to do item. Only wires off should be the one to your isolator switch and to a bilge pump with auto switch. Then from your isolator switch, the wires go to fuse panel or breaker panel. That way the isolator switch stops the lot.

Then you can start to rationalise everything, and find that 1amp drain because something may be shorting.
 
+1
The isolation switch does just that, i.e. isolate the battery. All circuits must be connected on the other side of the switch, except the bilge pump and starter solenoid.Disconnect all the small connections on the battery, and re- connect them to the other side of the isolator switch.

Hey presto!
 
+1
The isolation switch does just that, i.e. isolate the battery. All circuits must be connected on the other side of the switch, except the bilge pump and starter solenoid.Disconnect all the small connections on the battery, and re- connect them to the other side of the isolator switch.

Ok thanks, understand why the bilge pump must be on at all times, why should the starter soleniod be live when all is switched off. I mentioned the wires going to the isolator as being smaller than the normal batt leads, is this normal?

Richard
 
+1
The isolation switch does just that, i.e. isolate the battery. All circuits must be connected on the other side of the switch, except the bilge pump and starter solenoid.Disconnect all the small connections on the battery, and re- connect them to the other side of the isolator switch.

Ok thanks, understand why the bilge pump must be on at all times, why should the starter soleniod be live when all is switched off. I mentioned the wires going to the isolator as being smaller than the normal batt leads, is this normal?

Richard

Hi Richard,

The battery wires to the starter starter solenoid are the massive big ones. They have to take the enormous amps of starting the engine. So the are directly attached to the battery, otherwise you would have to install huge thick wires to the isolation switch and then back to the starter.

So, leave the thick wires in place on the battery, disconnect all the small ones, run a new cable back from the other side of the isolation switch to connect to these small wires.

Buy a small multimeter to check the switch to see which contacts are open or closed in each switch position.
 
Richard Ok thanks said:
Sounds as if the starter cables are not going through the isolator switch, only the service circuits. This would account for the wires being smaller as they are not carrying starter current. My suggestion would be take everything out between the batteries and the switch and start again, wiring the starter motor through the isolator with heavy cables. Only the auto bilge pump and the wind generator connected via fuses to the main cables at the battery.
 
The easy solution is to leave the isolation switch you have in place, and install a new one on top of the batteries.

Leave the starter motor lead, the bilge pump, and the new isolation switch on the battery terminal, then connect all the small wires to the new isolation switch.......sorted!!!
 
Hi Richard,

The battery wires to the starter starter solenoid are the massive big ones. They have to take the enormous amps of starting the engine. So the are directly attached to the battery, otherwise you would have to install huge thick wires to the isolation switch and then back to the starter.

So, leave the thick wires in place on the battery, disconnect all the small ones, run a new cable back from the other side of the isolation switch to connect to these small wires.

Buy a small multimeter to check the switch to see which contacts are open or closed in each switch position.

very bad practice, you need to be able to isolate the starter. If the run is too long fit and electric, ie remote switching, isolator switch. It should never be too long on a small yacht.

permemnantly live circuits should be limited to bilge pumps and memories for electronic stuff like radios, alarms etc.
 
very bad practice, you need to be able to isolate the starter. If the run is too long fit and electric, ie remote switching, isolator switch. It should never be too long on a small yacht.

permemnantly live circuits should be limited to bilge pumps and memories for electronic stuff like radios, alarms etc.

Hi Elessar,

The starter solenoid is relay switch, so it's only on when you turn the ignition switch. It does not normally take any power from the battery.
It's normal practice to wire the battery directly to the starter solenoid, not via the isolation switch, otherwise you would have use a massive cable (200 amps) the size of a garden hose.

Warning: do not connect the starter motor via the isolation switch, it will overheat and go on fire!
 
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Hi Elessar,

The starter solenoid is relay switch, so it's only on when you turn the ignition switch. It does not normally take any power from the battery.
It's normal practice to wire the battery directly to the starter solenoid, not via the isolation switch, otherwise you would have use a massive cable (200 amps) the size of a garden hose.
and not unheard of for them to stick!
 
Hi Elessar,

The starter solenoid is relay switch, so it's only on when you turn the ignition switch. It does not normally take any power from the battery.
It's normal practice to wire the battery directly to the starter solenoid, not via the isolation switch, otherwise you would have use a massive cable (200 amps) the size of a garden hose.

Well, you think it's normal practice, I've never seen it.

As it happens, my battery switch was wired wrongly and the bilge pumps were on the isolated side. So I left the battery on until I had time to fix it.

I was also doing some dash work. Water got into the cable and the engine started.

The starter and heater solenoid were destoyed. This was last week, so rather fresh in my mind. New starter from volvo £700+vat. Fortunately £395 inc from colin ryan, same starter black instead of green.

It could have been worse because the seacock was off. If i hadn't gone to the boat that day the engine would have been destroyed, as it happns I got to it just as the guage was in the red. Lucky, lucky, lucky.

I agree this is an unusual fault, but it is not unusual for them to stick. Or for me want to be spannering round the engine near the terminals.

I have since fixed the wiring so that my starters are isolated and bilge pumps on. As I believe is the norm.
 
Well, you think it's normal practice, I've never seen it.

As it happens, my battery switch was wired wrongly and the bilge pumps were on the isolated side. So I left the battery on until I had time to fix it.

I was also doing some dash work. Water got into the cable and the engine started.

The starter and heater solenoid were destoyed. This was last week, so rather fresh in my mind. New starter from volvo £700+vat. Fortunately £395 inc from colin ryan, same starter black instead of green.

It could have been worse because the seacock was off. If i hadn't gone to the boat that day the engine would have been destroyed, as it happns I got to it just as the guage was in the red. Lucky, lucky, lucky.

I agree this is an unusual fault, but it is not unusual for them to stick. Or for me want to be spannering round the engine near the terminals.

I have since fixed the wiring so that my starters are isolated and bilge pumps on. As I believe is the norm.

Of course it would be normal to isolate the relay coil on the solenoid ( the small wire on the solenoid), that way the solenoid could not engage.
 
Of course it would be normal to isolate the relay coil on the solenoid ( the small wire on the solenoid), that way the solenoid could not engage.
what if it sticks?.... you have no way to isolate the starter without getting a spanner out!!!!!!

Solenoid is normally isolated via the ignition switch/key.
 
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what if it sticks?.... you have no way to isolate the starter without getting a spanner out!!!!!!

Solenoid is normally isolated via the ignition switch/key.

That's true.

But Where can you buy a isolation switch rated at 200-300 amps? A solenoid is in fact a starter isolation switch in its own right. Had lots that stuck in the off position, never on. But it could definatly happen.
 
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