Electrical hell or boating life?

Alskade

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As people may or may not know, I am the rather new owner of a Westerly Chieftain. She's a lovely boat but one in need of a little TLC.

Number one among her tired and worn out fittings is the electrics.

The previous owner recommended a chap who was supposedly the ideal person to advise on the wheres and whys of boating and a great contact to get things done ........... a fixer with local knowledge.

Anyway the electrics were mentioned - namely the fact that there is no mast navigation/running lights, wind vain or working antenna, all other lighting etc worked fine. "Don't worry," says the fixer, "I know someone who can sort it." So I didn't worry ........ but maybe I should have.

Firstly, the fixer and his sparky turn up on the boat and I arrive later to find said sparks using my tools? Then, after he has finished and gone home, I find the switches for items like the depth sounder are different. Working, but different switches.

Then, comes the day when the mast is due to be rewired - sparky is there, Fixer is there and their mast monkey ......... I am assured everything will be sorted - fortunately I'm not there!! As if turns out I'm glad I wasn't as the mast monkey not only couldn't do the work but he also "apparently" drop a hammer and a spanner from the top of the mast onto the deck.

This I found out later - but what I also found later was that the poles to my spray hood on one side were all bent out of shape and the bracket was actually twisted (it would take some force to do this and while no answer was ever forth coming I almost believe someone fell onto the hood causing the buckling) but no one ever admitted it or apologized for it.

So - so far my mast wiring is still not completed (three weeks later) - my interior wiring works but I've had to work out which AUX switch works what? And, most annoying of all, all my external lights (running and stern) that did work before the work started now don't.

I have asked fixer for sparks number so I can ask him if he's left the disconnected for a reason or some such - but fixer will not give me said details??

Has anyone else fallen foul of such people?? Surely I'm not the only one who finds such behavior shocking?

Lastly, as it looks like I am about to start a self taught course called "how to sort out the mess in your wiring left by someone else" can anyone offer advise? Whats the best way to trace out the wires from say the port or starboard running lights and confirm either where they are dis connected or broken?? And before you ask - yes my internal wiring is a mess of old corroded dead wiring, old corroded wiring that works, new(ish) wiring put in by the previous owner - you get the picture.

Thanks in advance
 
What a sad story. I'm not the person to answer electrical questions in spite of a physics A-level in the Middle Ages but I would think that you might as well resign yourself to replacing all the wiring and connections. There is even a chance that it will work, and at least you will get to know your boat's innards.
 
Sadly, that is Boat Lesson number 1.

The forum is a rich source of knowledge about who is good and who is bad for the many trades related to boating, so it's always worth asking for a recommendation.

I think I'd start by drawing some freehand sketches of the boat (or use Sketch or Visio if you are techy) and locate all the lights, aerials, switches, sockets etc on the plan. There really is no alternative but to pick up a half-decent multimeter and a bulb soldered to a pair of wires on croc clips, and go round the boat identifying the cables (colour if you are lucky) and testing which goes where.

The big advantage is that when you have completed the inventory and diagrams, you will have the basis for a Boat Manual as a sort of primary reference for the future.

If you don;t know much about electricity, it is easy to learn the first 80% with the aid of decent book, Pat Manley's book is a good starter

https://www.marineandagriculturalclothing.co.uk/

Finally, invest in a decent couple of tools, a wire stripper and a terminal crimper, and some heat seal terminals. They will repay their use a thousand times over.
 
I'm sorry to hear of your pain..... for I, too, have agonised over 'lecky. I won't - I can't - pretend I know much at all about boat 'lecky, but after 'going through the fires' of asking on here, I do now know quite a bit more than I did. ( Not difficult, that! ) And I've slowly been rebuilding my 'lecky setup.....

Oh, yes. There's lots more to do, but I've acquired a kind of 'map' of what should go where and how - a bit like doing a jigsaw puzzle, I can identify 'that corner piece, this slice of flower bed'. And that's thanks to the many experts on here ( and outlets like 12Volt Planet - Paul Ballard )

Interestingly, the 'experts on here' know the answers to my questions, and respond quickly..... but they all have slightly different answers! Then they spend the next 3 weeks arguing like Question Time guests about who is more right. But, truth be told, I can usually 'sort the wheat from the chaff'..... and so will you. It's free consultancy.

But beware! There are still things you won't know and will have to discover for yourself. Mine included the revelation that the clamps that fit onto battery terminals are 'handed'. They're fractionally different sizes! Who'da thunk it!!! And just guess how I discovered this..... How does someone get to my exalted age without knowing that....?:rolleyes:

And that American Wire Gauge - wot fits into crimp terminals - ain't the same sizes as Yooropeen..... and their nuts and bolts neither. Several chandlers' staff don't know that. But should...... :ambivalence:

I've learned that it's false economy to fit anything other than tinned marine-spec wiring - from 0/1 AWG ( sort of 50mm^ ) right down to 0.5mm - 'cos it's the other sort, the now-manky and crumbling that my predecessor fitted - that I'm having to hoik out and replace. You, too?

I found I needed several different crimping tools - and the big one, the hydraulic hand jobber I need for battery cable crimps, has saved me my second-hand price several times over.

I looked at the shiny imported BlueSea distribution and switch panels, liked them, but nearly had a hernia when I saw the prices. Instead I found some very shiny imported copies/alternatives on eBay at 1/4 the price. If they last 10 years, they'll have earned their keep...... and I make liberal use of ( No. Not Duralac....... ) **ContraLube 770 to keep the mating-surface connections doing what they should - pass 12 volts without let or hindrance.

Now I know I'm sticking my neck out on here with this, and a small horde of 'naysayers' will be along shortly to shoot me down in flames, but I'm used to that. I have no street cred left to worry about. You'll make your own decisions about what suggestions to follow - and that's as it should be.

One further suggestion I'd make - hunt for a MastMate so you can get up and down your own mast. there's plenty of guidance on how to keep yourself safe while doing that. The skill/nous is not difficult to learn, and it's sound investment!

:D


** Edit: Thanks to 'Elbows' who pointed out the strange trick my l'il brain served up on me, despite me re-reading it twice.....
 
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Im sure there are many good tradesmen out there that can carry out all the work you need doing. Personally I do all my own work, firstly because I could not afford to pay for professional tradesmen, and secondly I can do anything relating to boat maintenance, well almost anyway.

Simple electrics are easy to install. Don't bother with the mast head lights till you need to remove the mast. I just have bow and stern lights. Just work on it gradually.
Id not let anyone loose on my boat ever. Perhaps you need to start with a new power supply and switch panel. then work from there. It all takes time.

Steveeasy
 
Thank you....as always....to everyone.

I think that it was definitely boat lesson #1! It's definitely making us very resilient.....that's for sure! Also, as much as it is very annoying it is definitely giving us the best lesson in how our boat works.

While I was happily chatting about solar energy I didn't realise the problems that was going on. I've told the OH not to let either parties back on the boat because I'm clearly concerned about what might happen next.

Mast ladders - check, particularly as we need to have more control over the situation, but we are happy to take that one step at a time. Thank you :)

I think that I agree about starting with a new power supply and switch panel and working it out from there. Very sober advice.
 
and I make liberal use of Duralac 770 to keep the mating-surface connections doing what they should - pass 12 volts without let or hindrance.

I think you had a brain fart and meant Contralube 770. Duralac is an insulator by design.
 
When I rewired my boat throughout, from mast to transom, with marine grade tinned cable I chose to commission a custom made, to my specs, a contact breaker equipped, illuminated switches distribution panel. The old one had glass fuses which are impossible to read the etched ratings on the caps and I didn’t want to be short of the correct fuse.
This company was very helpful and built what I wanted at a price a little more than their many off the shelf boards and delivered quickly. A very neat job and with all the +ve and -ve switch wiring connected so as to leave me with one suitable size cable tail to their respective bus bars it all fitted into a small enclosure nicely and enabled me to collect the boat circuits supply and return cables separately from the distribution panel the latter being able to be removed easily, if necessary, on a service loop without having to disconnect any connections
https://www.axoncontrol.co.uk/panels/dc-distribution-panels
 
Im sure there are many good tradesmen out there that can carry out all the work you need doing. Personally I do all my own work, firstly because I could not afford to pay for professional tradesmen, and secondly I can do anything relating to boat maintenance, well almost anyway.

Simple electrics are easy to install. Don't bother with the mast head lights till you need to remove the mast. I just have bow and stern lights. Just work on it gradually.
Id not let anyone loose on my boat ever. Perhaps you need to start with a new power supply and switch panel. then work from there. It all takes time.

I'm with this man. There are some good tradesmen out there but they take some finding. There are many cowboys, some bigger than you think. Only three times have I had a 'pro' work on my boat:

One to repair a delaminating side deck (he was back fixing it again the following season).

The next to install a new Beta engine. He expanded his scope by recommending an engine that didn't fit into my boat, then ordered modifications that he billed me for then expected to charge me to fit the modifications.

Finally the rigger that got in with a reasonable price, found a number of faults (that didn't exist) with the spreaders, wouldn't fix or reuse the existing genoa reefing or fit the one that I wanted so I had to buy a rather expensive one from him and then had the cheek to ask me to resend a payment to him as it hadn't got through (it had been acknowledged as received by his bank). I paid his final bill just to get my boat back.

I'm pleased to say that everything else I fix myself. I always make a point of taking the mast down to fix or upgrade anything aloft as I feel that you can always do a better job with your feet on the ground. I did all of the mast electrics on my previous boats and it proved easy and cheap. I didn't drop any tools on the deck either.

Treat it as an adventure in DIY. Schedule plenty of time in the early layup period and don't be afraid to ask friends from your club who will actually be pleased to help you out. DIY boat tinkering is a joy only superseded by sailing so make sure you get your money's worth. :)
 
"how to sort out the mess in your wiring left by someone else"

If there isn't a book of that name, there should be.

I bought my first boat from a sparks who'd rewired it...with twin and earth and leaving all the previous wiring in place.

Tough lesson, Alskade. Good luck. And definitely don't pay these cowboys if you haven't already.
 
"how to sort out the mess in your wiring left by someone else"

If there isn't a book of that name, there should be.

I bought my first boat from a sparks who'd rewired it...with twin and earth and leaving all the previous wiring in place.

Tough lesson, Alskade. Good luck. And definitely don't pay these cowboys if you haven't already.
Sounds about par for the course. So far I've removed about 200 meters of cable that was not connected to anything and I've not even restarted the re-wiring job properly.

The live naked male prongs in a strange AC socket (that took three kettle like plugs) in the depth of a locker in the saloon took first prize! Thankfully shore-power was off when I found that!
 
Another vote for doing as much as possible yourself, there are too many cowboys out there who sound convincing but either don't know what they're doing or just don't give a toss. That can include big names and established professionals.

Most jobs on a boat can be tackled as long as you're reasonably practical and keen to learn. This forum is an invaluable source of information, help and advice, although as somebody else mentioned you do have to develop an ear for the bullshitters. Oh, and ignore the "grumpy old man" bickering which many threads degenerate into :)

The other big advantage of finding out how things work and repairing/installing things yourself is that you'll know your boat inside out and have a much better chance of dealing with things if they go wrong at an awkward moment.
 
This is why I do all the electrical work myself as "professional" only means the they charge for what they bugger up and does in no way indicate the quality of their work.
 
I found, soon after buying Osprey three years ago, that while teh previous owner was really good on woodwork and fittings, his approach to electrics was... not so good.

In the first year of ownership I spent a lot of time sorting this out, with many "WTF" moments, and now things are reliable and usable. If I could offer some thoughts from my experiences:
1) don't go mad and start pulling things apart wholesale. Take it steady; it takes time to feel your way into how it all works (and doesn't).
2) if the wires in place for, say, cabin lights , are OK, don't replace them, routing wires neatly is a hell of a job!
3) Check your earthing block, replace if needed (mine was a pile of blue dust with maybe some copper in it somewhere). excess resistance there will cause pretty much everything to misbehave.
4) get the essentials working properly first. That's engine, depth gauge, log. Then work on the rest. (My nav lights had a fault initially, so I bought some battery powered ones in case I ended up sailing after dark - they're now in the "emergency kit" stash. My anchor light at the masthead didn't work - until got around to taking the mast down, I hoisted an LED lantern on a halyard. My fitted VHF did work, but if yours doesn't initially, a handheld VHF (DSC ideally) should be fine and is a good thing to have anyway, And so on.)
4) if the basics work - go sailing!

Steve
 
One to repair a delaminating side deck (he was back fixing it again the following season).

The next to install a new Beta engine. He expanded his scope by recommending an engine that didn't fit into my boat, then ordered modifications that he billed me for then expected to charge me to fit the modifications.

Finally the rigger that got in with a reasonable price, found a number of faults (that didn't exist) with the spreaders, wouldn't fix or reuse the existing genoa reefing or fit the one that I wanted so I had to buy a rather expensive one from him and then had the cheek to ask me to resend a payment to him as it hadn't got through (it had been acknowledged as received by his bank). I paid his final bill just to get my boat back.

Isn't this just incredible. I have to say that I would be thoroughly ashamed if I 'bodged' a job on/to someone else's property - I would never do that to someone and I am blown away by the sheer neckiness of people.
 
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