PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Last edited:
Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.
- Thread starter KompetentKrew
- Start date
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Good points regarding cable sizes and using good quality crimps, which is why a particularly mentioned that the crimps i linked to in my earlier post were good quality. If the crimps are cheap, thin ones, the crimper will not crimp them up correctly.
Wire sizing is also important, for a number of reasons. Current carrying capacity, voltage drop, robustness and the correct crimp for that wire. The vast majority of production boats use a limited number of different sized cables. If you're doing some wiring on your boat, don't mess around using a millions sizes. If you have some equipment that can all be safely run from 1.5mm cable, use 1.5mm cable, doesn't matter if a couple of the items could be on 1mm cable. You can then use all red crimps and know they'll crimp up correctly. You can also buy the cable in a bigger quantity, possibly a full roll, which works out cheaper, even taking into account that two things could have been wired using thinner/cheaper cable.
Robustness is also a consideration. No point wiring low current using equipment up with tiny wire to save a couple of £££s when the wiring breaks.
Wire sizing is also important, for a number of reasons. Current carrying capacity, voltage drop, robustness and the correct crimp for that wire. The vast majority of production boats use a limited number of different sized cables. If you're doing some wiring on your boat, don't mess around using a millions sizes. If you have some equipment that can all be safely run from 1.5mm cable, use 1.5mm cable, doesn't matter if a couple of the items could be on 1mm cable. You can then use all red crimps and know they'll crimp up correctly. You can also buy the cable in a bigger quantity, possibly a full roll, which works out cheaper, even taking into account that two things could have been wired using thinner/cheaper cable.
Robustness is also a consideration. No point wiring low current using equipment up with tiny wire to save a couple of £££s when the wiring breaks.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
Seems like eminently sensible advice to me.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Thanks John :encouragement:
rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Badly quoted text not showing.........
At a bit of a loss as to what you're trying to start an argument over today Roger, perhaps you'd care to point out which of my posts are wrong, which ones say "my way is the only way" or which ones you disagree with in particular ?
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
Sometimes things are best ignored... Most people can recognise what is happening and who is giving reasonable advise. It is after all a forum and even comments areas that I have some professional expertise in occasionally get belittled by some people. I just choose to ignore it and allow readers to make up their own mind.
rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
It's not specifically any current post, it's just your attitude to anyone who makes a statement that you disagree with.
You may consider that the info given is incorrect in your view but its his view and if he does it that way that's his choice.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
So, nothing in this thread that you disagree with, you just though you'd pop along and start an argument ?
rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
I agree with you John. It's up to the poster to choose which way he suits him.
As you say its belittled by some people that gets up my nose.
I try to just give my view and if the poster does not consider my view to his liking I don't care.
It the belittling that I object to especially by one who claims to be "professional" (paid for work)
We have had a similar "discussion" with Brent who is adamant that steel is the best boat building material. Having a steel boat myself I know the pros and cons of steel. The same applies to all other boat building materials but it the punters choice after all.
rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
As I said its your attitude and nit picking ]to others that I don't like and the way you belittle others is very disrespectful in my view of cause.
I'm not interesting in arguing just trying to point out a problem I have, but it seems I am wasting my time.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
So, trolling then.
KompetentKrew
Well-Known Member
I noticed that, too - in the photo, after I'd put the cover back.
I think it may be 12v power supply to the compass light.
This is exactly what sparked my concerns!
My feelings exactly!
These photos are there underside of the instrument cluster.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
I find a good solution for interconnecting instruments inside pods etc can be to epoxy some Wago connectors in the pod. Just push the wires in and lock the levers, no crimping or soldering.
ghostlymoron
Well-Known Member
Paul, et al, is there some way of identifying good quality crimp connectors - BS No or other quality mark?
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
If they are not packaged it'd be hard to say. If they are packaged and from one of the big manufacturers you'd be safe. RS sell some good ones, as do CEF. The Ebay link i posted early is safe (no connection).
superheat6k
Well-Known Member
Now we digress back to the original subject of crimps -v- soldered joints, or a cross over, yet there has been little considered of the various types of crimp available.
I personally avoid Yellow / Blue / Red barrel crimps - as Rocksteadee points out the quality of the crimp cannot be ascertained and often these will fail a simple tug test, and do leave both ends open to contaminants.
Then there are the neat fold over open body crimps for which either heat shrink or pre-made insulated covers can be used (if you remember to slip them over the wire first !). Properly set these make a superb connection, are tight to the wire with one part engaged in the insulation for strength and the other fully encapsulating the conductors. Indeed the cross section shown earlier in the thread seems to show this type, and not the rather haphazard barrel crimp, simply squeezed hard with little form onto the wire, and little or no strength at all added by (not) grasping the insulation.
Then thirdly we have the larger power crimps used for larger size cables typically 6 - 120 mm2, and the debate here certainly crosses all types with little definition.
I have a lovely AMP tool for the folded types. When using the barrel types, for sometimes I have little choice, my preference is to first slip the wire into a bootlace ferrule then insert this into the crimp barrel. At least this way I know all the conductor strands are earning their keep. For joints in small wires the I cannot afford to fail I will use uninsulated fold over AMP male / females, and then solder these at the joint, and if the conductors are very small I will layer some solder into the folded part too, before sealing with HS using a smaller for the uninsulated crimp, then a larger piece for the whole multi core cable. I also carefully stagger the joints from individual conductors in a multicore to avoid a big fat bulge at one point. A six core cable may require a joint over ~ 6-8" of cable, but the end result is an almost smooth outer surface to tuck away into the machine framing out of sight, never to trouble anyone again.
Am I right - this works for me. Is it the only way, no, although I do agree with the sentiment almost right is still wrong. Each to his own, I am just trying to impart what I would do. BTW I do do this professionally for large air conditioning machines, so I have a vested commercial interest not to be chasing bad joints, and this involves in the same equipment large 400 VAC cables to 120mm2 down to small 10vdc and ethernet / computer signal cables at 0.25mm2 or smaller.
I personally avoid Yellow / Blue / Red barrel crimps - as Rocksteadee points out the quality of the crimp cannot be ascertained and often these will fail a simple tug test, and do leave both ends open to contaminants.
Then there are the neat fold over open body crimps for which either heat shrink or pre-made insulated covers can be used (if you remember to slip them over the wire first !). Properly set these make a superb connection, are tight to the wire with one part engaged in the insulation for strength and the other fully encapsulating the conductors. Indeed the cross section shown earlier in the thread seems to show this type, and not the rather haphazard barrel crimp, simply squeezed hard with little form onto the wire, and little or no strength at all added by (not) grasping the insulation.
Then thirdly we have the larger power crimps used for larger size cables typically 6 - 120 mm2, and the debate here certainly crosses all types with little definition.
I have a lovely AMP tool for the folded types. When using the barrel types, for sometimes I have little choice, my preference is to first slip the wire into a bootlace ferrule then insert this into the crimp barrel. At least this way I know all the conductor strands are earning their keep. For joints in small wires the I cannot afford to fail I will use uninsulated fold over AMP male / females, and then solder these at the joint, and if the conductors are very small I will layer some solder into the folded part too, before sealing with HS using a smaller for the uninsulated crimp, then a larger piece for the whole multi core cable. I also carefully stagger the joints from individual conductors in a multicore to avoid a big fat bulge at one point. A six core cable may require a joint over ~ 6-8" of cable, but the end result is an almost smooth outer surface to tuck away into the machine framing out of sight, never to trouble anyone again.
Am I right - this works for me. Is it the only way, no, although I do agree with the sentiment almost right is still wrong. Each to his own, I am just trying to impart what I would do. BTW I do do this professionally for large air conditioning machines, so I have a vested commercial interest not to be chasing bad joints, and this involves in the same equipment large 400 VAC cables to 120mm2 down to small 10vdc and ethernet / computer signal cables at 0.25mm2 or smaller.
grumpy_o_g
Well-Known Member
The cables leading to an electrical joint should be supported regardless or whether it's crimped, soldered or a terminal block. The crimp should never be the support.
grumpy_o_g
Well-Known Member
Very little. It takes seconds to do a soldered joint if your are practiced at it and the equipment is to hand. Crimping is actually slower but that's a slightly unfair comparison and you might not need to add heatshrink in some circumstances when crimping when it would be necessary with a soldered joint. Simply tinning a cable before crimping it in a controlled environment as when manufacturing is ridiculously fast - it takes a few seconds to do twenty cables for a plug for example. Yes, there's a lot of prep work but it's needed for the joint anyway, whatever you are using.
grumpy_o_g
Well-Known Member
You check both the crimpers and crimp by doing a test on a piece of spare cable. Cut through the splice itself with a mini hacksaw and make sure the whole thing looks like a single of metal. There should be no airgaps in the joint and it should be pretty much impossible to make out individual strands of wire. Also, before cutting the crimp, check the insulating sleeve to make sure it's intact. It's not a 100% guarantee of a good joint but it's a pretty good check.
