Electric Windlass Advice

[PaulRainbow]

Thankyou so much for these replies, all of you. It's made me really think about the best set up. I'm going to forget chain counter. Dunedins comments about lifting without much engine use make a load of sense. I can either retrofit a wireless remote or suck it and see, So it's just the position of a toggle switch and which make to decide

If you fit a switch at the helm, you can't use the windlass from the foredeck. If you fit at the foredeck you can't use it from the helm, which you might want to do in bad weather. If you fit the switch at the helm and fit the wireless remote you can use the windlass from anywhere, i'll bet you never use the switch

 

[dunedin]

If you fit a switch at the helm, you can't use the windlass from the foredeck. If you fit at the foredeck you can't use it from the helm, which you might want to do in bad weather. If you fit the switch at the helm and fit the wireless remote you can use the windlass from anywhere, i'll bet you never use the switch

Yes, definitely want a wireless remote if single handing. We also have the wired remote which came as standard with the windlass which lives in the anchor locker and does get some use.
Personally I wouldn’t waste time taking cables back to helm, as wireless works from there - and generally only paying out the first few metres before going to front (stern to quays in Greece excepted). And avoid foot switches as tend to corrode and wireless is more flexible.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Yes, definitely want a wireless remote if single handing. We also have the wired remote which came as standard with the windlass which lives in the anchor locker and does get some use.
Personally I wouldn’t waste time taking cables back to helm, as wireless works from there - and generally only paying out the first few metres before going to front (stern to quays in Greece excepted). And avoid foot switches as tend to corrode and wireless is more flexible.

Yes, defintely no foot switches. I would still install the switch at the helm, as a failsafe.

 

[dunedin]

Yes, defintely no foot switches. I would still install the switch at the helm, as a failsafe.

Why not the backup wired switch at the bow, as much shorter wiring to windlass. And use remote at helm?

 

[oilybilge]

If you fit a switch at the helm, you can't use the windlass from the foredeck. If you fit at the foredeck you can't use it from the helm

You can fit a switch in both locations

 

[vyv_cox]

If you fit a switch at the helm, you can't use the windlass from the foredeck. If you fit at the foredeck you can't use it from the helm, which you might want to do in bad weather.

That is definitely not true of ours, we use the switch adjacent to the Morse control or the foot switches as required, although I have never tried both together! The wiring diagram that came with our Maxwell shows both switch arrangements.
As I said previously, the cockpit switch is probably the best possible aid to stern-to berthing on anchor, as is very common in Greece. It frees up the crew to take warps ashore while I adjust the position of the boat as required.

 

[PaulRainbow]

No, serious, wish i'd

You can fit a switch in both locations

No, serious, wish i'd thought of that.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Why not the backup wired switch at the bow, as much shorter wiring to windlass. And use remote at helm?

Because, ir the wireless remote packs up, or you drop it overboard, you can only controll the windlass from the foredeck, not good if single handing or it's blowing a gale and you have to go forward.

 

[PaulRainbow]

That is definitely not true of ours, we use the switch adjacent to the Morse control or the foot switches as required, although I have never tried both together! The wiring diagram that came with our Maxwell shows both switch arrangements.
As I said previously, the cockpit switch is probably the best possible aid to stern-to berthing on anchor, as is very common in Greece. It frees up the crew to take warps ashore while I adjust the position of the boat as required.

You misunderstood Vyv, i was refering to only having one switch. Of course, if you have two they work as you describe, as would 3, 4 or 5 switches. I meant, one switch at the helm and a wireless remote, not need for foot switches then (unless you prefer them, of course).

 

[oilybilge]

No, serious, wish i'd

No, serious, wish i'd thought of that.

Why did you present it as an either/or choice then?

 

[john_morris_uk]

We have foot switches on the foredeck. They’ve been there for years and never a problem.

 

[Ian_Edwards]

I've been sailing my Southerly single handed for 12 year and a Dufour 40 for 5 years before that. The Dufour had a Quick windlass the Southerly a Lewmar. Both have a manual switch on cable at the bow, and a Quick switch with a chain counter in the cockpit.
The technique for setting the anchor is the remove the securing pin on the anchor before approaching the anchorage, return to the cockpit, choose the spot, approch the spot slowly, then let out the chain. I know the waters depth so the counter let me know when the anchor is on the sea bed, let out at least 10m of chain, let the boat drift back (or use a kick astern). Wait a while depending on the wind or tide and let the chain pull out the slack, then let out about 3 x the water depth, wait for the bow to dip as the anchor sets. I then let out another length of chain to get the desired scope. Go forward and set the nylon bridle, paying out additional chain until the bridle is taking the load.
I can tell if the anchor is properly set, because I can see the chain go tight.
If I'm unsure about the holding I'll the boat touch astern, just to check.
Recovering the anchor is easy, if the anchorage is open, no lea shore or nearby boats I retrieve the anchor from the bow. I take in the slack, then allow the chain to pull the boat forward. When the chain goes slack I take in a little more chain, and repeat the process. If there isn't too much wind or tide, it's amazing how much speed you can pick up, usually enough to break the anchor out.
If it's wind or congested I do it all from the cockpit. The counter let me know when the chain is vertical, and when it's at the roller. I leave it there until it's safe to go forward a secure the anchor.
I find that procedure work most of the time.
The Spade anchor and the Rocna I had on the Dufour, set well in most condition, if you do it gently. They don't set if dragged at high speed across the seabed. The also seem to be good a burying then selves if the wind increases, to the point that they can be very difficult to breakout.
I'd find it much harder to handle a 46ft, 16ton boat single handed without a windlass control at the bow and a second control plus a chain counter in the cockpit.

 

[dunedin]

Because, ir the wireless remote packs up, or you drop it overboard, you can only controll the windlass from the foredeck, not good if single handing or it's blowing a gale and you have to go forward.

Perhaps it is a boat type thing - think you have a motor boat?
If I lost the remote the wired control I would want would be at the bow. It is dead easy to lower the anchor.
But lifting is trickier and I would always want to do this from at the bow (or near with the remote) to watch the chain for angle onto the bow roller, clear weed as it comes up (often quite a lot and don’t want a jamb up) - or even the embedded rocks, lobster pots or cables that once in a while appears as the anchor gets closer ! Also many/most yachts need checking the anchor and carefully pulling the last bit in with the anchor aligned correctly to avoid roller furling drum etc.
But each to their own.

 

[Neeves]

My Maxwell came with an up/down switch for mounting in the cockpit. This is utterly invaluable for berthing stern-to in Greece but for more conventional anchoring I added two foot switches on the foredeck.

I have attempted to use mine manually: just about impossible. The socket for the winch handle is very shallow and turning it is awkward to say the least. When I lost use of the windlass last year due to a corroded wire it was far easier to haul in the old fashioned way.

We too have a Maxwell.

We had an up/down switch at the helm and foot switches at the bow. You need to be at the bow if you rely on marks on the chain to define the length deployed, when you are about to complete retrieval and to lash the anchor if you are to make a long passage. Hand retrieval using the windlass and usually, some sort of handle like a winch handle, is a nightmare as most windlass are simply too low to allow you to get you back into the retrieval process. Maxwell sell extenders, simply longish rods, but I'm not sure how effective they are.

The recess within which the connection for the hand retrieval winch handle fits is 'odd'. The winch handle looks like a standard winch handle - it is not. The winch handle fits into a recess in the windlass. The recess houses a bolt with a pan head nut in the winch which allows the Maxwell handle to sit properly. A standard winch handle does not have this recess and will not fit properly - it fits shallow, poorly seated.

We have had no issues with the windlass - it does what it says on the box. If we had to buy again we would buy a Maxwell again, good kit, marvellous service when we were choosing the model. (We were downsizing chain and they recommended a 8mm model with a 6mm gypsy and a motor for 8mm - others simply suggested buy a 6mm model - ignoring the fact that all the tensions were for 8mm)

Maxwell have concluded that most people use their windlass at the weekend or holidays and have someone tasked, presumably on a rota, with monitoring the emails over every weekend and holiday 24/7/365. There is someone on duty on Xmas day (its summer in OZ/NZ so not so silly). If you have an issue someone is there to offer advice.

Most faults are simple on windlass - and centre round a lack of service, wiring issues (windlass vibrate a lot in use) not checking the oil in the gearbox (Maxwells have a 'sight glass') and not greasing the shaft. The biggest issue is the mixing of stainless bolts with aluminium castings and inevitable corrosion.

Considering the abuse they receive - they are marvellous bits of kit.

In defence of owners - most windlass are installed by individuals who will not be servicing the windlass. Consequently when they are installed there is no concern shown for the person who might service the kit and access is usually very, very difficult.

If you are buying a new windlass and installing it yourself - think of how you are going to service the machine - patience in thinking it all through will pay dividends.


And

coat all bolts with Duralac before or during installation and re-new during service.

Jonathan

 

[noelex]

We have a wired remote at the bow and a wireless remote (an industrial crane unit) that works from anywhere on the boat. We only ever use the wireless remote, as it is more convenient, although we test the wired remote occasionally to check it is still a valid backup.

The best anchor windlasses are made by a small company called Lighthouse. Of the more popular brands, Muir and Maxwell have a good reputation. I have owned several windlasses from both of these companies and they seem equally well made.

Oversize the windlass if you can easily do so. In this way if you become tangled with another anchor or debris, there is a greater chance of sorting out the problem easily. At least have a windlass with sufficient power to be able to be able to comfortably anchor in deep water, as this can sometimes be a useful option.

 

[alan_d]

Oversize the windlass if you can easily do so. In this way if you become tangled with another anchor or debris, there is a greater chance of sorting out the problem easily. At least have a windlass with sufficient power to be able to be able to comfortably anchor in deep water, as this can sometimes be a useful option.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Perhaps it is a boat type thing - think you have a motor boat?

Current boat is a motor boat, previous one was a sail boat with just a wired remote at the bow. I'd normally use the windlass from the bow, for the reasons you mention.

If I lost the remote the wired control I would want would be at the bow. It is dead easy to lower the anchor.
But lifting is trickier and I would always want to do this from at the bow (or near with the remote) to watch the chain for angle onto the bow roller, clear weed as it comes up (often quite a lot and don’t want a jamb up) - or even the embedded rocks, lobster pots or cables that once in a while appears as the anchor gets closer ! Also many/most yachts need checking the anchor and carefully pulling the last bit in with the anchor aligned correctly to avoid roller furling drum etc.
But each to their own.

As a failsafe i'd prefer to be able to use the windlass from the helm, but as you say, each to their own.

 

[alan_d]

Oversize the windlass if you can easily do so. In this way if you become tangled with another anchor or debris, there is a greater chance of sorting out the problem easily. At least have a windlass with sufficient power to be able to be able to comfortably anchor in deep water, as this can sometimes be a useful option.

Surely you need a windlass capable of retrieving the total weight (in water) of your rode plus anchor?

 

[noelex]

Most windlass manufacturers recommend that the nominal maximum windlass pulling power should be three to four times the total ground tackle weight. The primary reason for this multiplication factor is that the maximum pulling power can only be sustained for a short time and at a low (or zero) retrieve speed.

Some manufacturers reference the working load limit of the windlass (which will be much lower than maximum pulling power). This can be much closer to the total ground tackle weight (for example, Lofrans recommends that the working load limit should be 10% higher than the ground tackle weight).

Unfortunately, boat manufacturers often sell the boat with short chain lengths, so while it may comfortably meet this criterion when new, when the chain is upgraded, it may no longer qualify. It is worth checking if you fitting a new windlass.

 

[awol]

The OP has the advantage of being able to choose her installation and control gear. I bought a boat where the already small anchor locker had been further shrunk by fitting the windlass into it, where the power wires were not sealed passing through the bulkheads but did have a connector for a wired controller at the bow and idiotically placed buttons in the cockpit. The biggest problem is that the chain tends to jam on its way out, particularly after punching into head seas, and piles and jams on the way in. The cockpit buttons are sited so that one has to bend down to operate them and cannot see anything anywhere near the foredeck.
I sail quite a lot single-handed and find flaking out a decent length of chain on the deck before dropping and having the boat moving down wind/tide solves that part. Because I have to stop/start and clear the chain pile I have to be on the foredeck to hoist and I too pull in then let the boat move forward and repeat. Stress comes in crowded anchorages when the anchor breaks free. Since I've been using a Knox it is usually obvious when its about to break free and clearing space in the locker before dashing (?) back to the cockpit to take control of rudder, engine and windlass buttons gives a chance to get free without catching anyone else's rode.
I could, of course, change the set-up, move the windlass, even lead the chain through a hawse pipe into the f'c'sle, resite the cockpit buttons .... but much too much a faff.