Elecsol batteries - are the claims for real?

THe proof of the pudding etc. ..I bought two Elecsol leisure batteries [100Ah. and 70Ah.] in March 2006 and they've served our Sadler as house and starter batteries ever since [7 seasons] on a swinging mooring with shore power charging via a Sterling 20A charger whenever we visit a marina. They also get a 24 hr. charge in December and again in April while the boat's laid up. I check them annually but can't recall ever having to top them up and I've never removed them from the boat. I use a built-in voltmeter to monitor their voltages to make sure that the alternator is charging when I first start the engine and to check their state of charge when we've been anchored overnight for example.
 
Cabling

BGW said:
My bench mark was the 50% discharge cycle rate - which is a respectable 2,500 - but the graph show a range of 1,200 at 100% discharge to over 6,000 at 20% discharge.
They have a 7 year warranty.
With regard to charging they are rated at 14.2 to 14.4 and my sterling multi stage chargers at 28.8v (SLA setting for 24V system) is just at the upper end of this range, and was confirmed by the agent as being perfectly acceptable.
I also took the wiring example (all cable lengths matched) very seriously too - I wanted to replace the cables anyway.
BatteriesInstalled.jpg
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Brian,

It may be simply a matter of perspective, but the picture appears to show cabling that does not seem to be oversized.

John G
 
We had two Trojan T105 6v batteries in series and were very happy with them as house batteries. As deep cycle they are designed as leisure batteries (used on golf carts) and can handle a deep discharge.

In theory they can be used as cranking batteries but don't have the same power as proper cranking batteries. I wouldn't use them for cranking for the reason that cranking batteries are much cheaper the deep cycle.
 
KellysEye said:
We had two Trojan T105 6v batteries in series and were very happy with them as house batteries. As deep cycle they are designed as leisure batteries (used on golf carts) and can handle a deep discharge.

In theory they can be used as cranking batteries but don't have the same power as proper cranking batteries. I wouldn't use them for cranking for the reason that cranking batteries are much cheaper the deep cycle.
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I think know what you mean about T105s designed as leisure batteries (i.e. Used for golf carts, leisure pursuit). However, others might think that you are saying T105s are leisure batteries in the sense that batteries are advertised as "marine" or "leisure" deep-cycle.

That tends to really mean "we'll sell you these as deep-cycle but everyone knows that they really aren't".
 
Jegs said:
Brian,

It may be simply a matter of perspective, but the picture appears to show cabling that does not seem to be oversized.

John G
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Yes it must be perspective, those bateries are huge, and the wiring is correct for the installation.

I run a 1500w inverter 24/7 when on board (two fridges and occasional microwave use) and have had no problems in the first two years of use.

I have a 25Ah sterling charger when connected to shore power and a sterling alternator to battery charger (connected to both engines) for when I am motoring. - I have only used the generator once since installing this setup after some teenagers took some "power liberties" on a holiday the first year.
I am confident enough to no longer take the generator with me.
The engines with elderly 30Ah (24v) alternators produce up to 40Ah (combined) at normal cruising speed if required.
 
nigelmercier said:
The batteries may be huge, but the studs on the battery clamps will be around 8mm. The wire is about the same size, tiny.
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I'm sorry, I cannot remember what the size of the cable we used was, but it was taken from the recommendations in the inverter instructions, we did not pick the cable by "how thick it looked."

This is a 24v installation and the cable does not need to be a large as a 12v installation if that is what you are used to.

It has served me well for two years, and I am not about to go changing it for thicker cables just for looks. If they are correct for the application they are used for (unless the instructions were wrong of course, but we did also do our own calculations) then it is good enough for me.
 
nigelmercier said:
I didn't realise it was just for an inverter, but the size of the cable required depends mainly on the length, not the maximum current it can handle.
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Yes, I am fully aware of the requirements, and the cables were specced correctly. - And in case you will pick up on the fact that there seems to be excessive length in some cables, I was following best practise (afaik) to keep all the cables the same length to ensure the battery banks stay as equalised as possible.
At the time of install I would use between 15% and 25% of capacity every 24 hrs depending on the season and usage. (monitored with a NASA BM1 monitor) and while I appreciate it is not a clinical scientific result or test
they still perform the same two years on.

I can only speak from my experience and I appreciate my setup may not suit anybody else but it works for me.
 
BGW said:
....I can only speak from my experience and I appreciate my setup may not suit anybody else but it works for me.
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You don't seem to be taking very kindly to everyone's helpful feedback. Your interpretation of the manufacturers instruction may not be absolutely correct. I would suggest that the coils you have added to make all the lengths the same would be much better being shorter and using much larger cables, so that the voltage drop here is absolutely negligible. The cables from your positive and negatives battery terminals to your bus bar are the ones that need to be the same lengths.

I would also question your bus bar. The positive post seems to be mounted directly to a wood support. If this gets damp there could be a small leak to earth!!!!

I also cannot understand how you could mount sealed batteries in an engine compartment, especially so close to an alternator that can get up to 100 degrees C. This might have been the manufacturers original installation - with open wet lead acid batteries - but this could kill sealed batteries very quickly. For every 10C rise in battery temperature above 30C their life is halved. Try Googling that if you don't believe the posts on here.
 
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sailinglegend420 said:
You don't seem to be taking very kindly to everyone's helpful feedback. Your interpretation of the manufacturers instruction may not be absolutely correct. I would suggest that the coils you have added to make all the lengths the same would be much better being shorter and using much larger cables, so that the voltage drop here is absolutely negligible. The cables from your positive and negatives battery terminals to your bus bar are the ones that need to be the same lengths.

I would also question your bus bar. The positive post seems to be mounted directly to a wood support. If this gets damp there could be a small leak to earth!!!!

I also cannot understand how you could mount sealed batteries in an engine compartment, especially so close to an alternator that can get up to 100 degrees C. This might have been the manufacturers original installation - with open wet lead acid batteries - but this could kill sealed batteries very quickly. For every 10C rise in battery temperature above 30C their life is halved. Try Googling that if you don't believe the posts on here.
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I'm sorry if I came across a bit on the blunt side but I didn't post in this thread asking for help, I was trying to give an example of my setup that is proven to work and I am happy with.
I have only been boating for around 10 years, so I make no great claims of expertise, but batteries had always been the bain of my life because I did not fully understand what was required and how they worked. I have learnt from experience over the years and finally have a setup that works. I do expect I have more to learn. The last two years have transformed my boating enjoyment without the constant worry of power issues or the need to lug a generator around.
I sometimes get a little tired of this forum (not specifically this thread) with people posting what they think is correct with no actual experience, or a lack of knowledge of the full facts - and the latter in this instance, perhaps through my own lack of description, seems to have been the issue here.
You are correct about the Bus Bar. It was a temporary setup until I was able to source the correct item, I too was a little concerned but it was not in a position where it could get wet and it worked fine for the time it was there.
I was constrained by the maximum length of the longest connection, and the cable was chosen with that length, and the power usage in mind.
Perhaps I misinterpreted the installation guidelines but nothing is under specced with the wiring and there does not appear to be any issues with it. If I learn from experience that I have made a mistake then I will adapt and move on.
In an ideal world, yes, I would have not put the house battery bank there but it is where the original installation was and it would require a great deal of wiring changes to move them - as well as the issue of finding enough space.
There are large air vents above the battery bank that help keep that area as cool as possible, but as the operating range of these batteries is quoted as 50 to 60c I felt it was safe. - I have never measured it - perhaps I should.

I did not intend to post on this thread with instructions of how people should do it, but merely to offer my experience of a setup that works.
I wish I hadn't bothered.
 
BGW said:
There are large air vents above the battery bank that help keep that area as cool as possible, but as the operating range of these batteries is quoted as 50 to 60c I felt it was safe. - I have never measured it - perhaps I should.
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I have noted your comments about advice etc., but as someone who does know something about batteries having formerly worked for a major manufacturer for some years in a technical role, I feel obliged to point out that if you really have your batteries at those sort of temperatures you will seriously shorten their life considerably, whatever brand or technology they are.
Sailinglegend420 talks sense too, I know he has explored the AGM topic very thoroughly, although his experience is slanted to one particular product.

(Not suggesting that no other posters also talk sense but you can't take it for granted!)
 
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>...you are saying T105s are leisure batteries in the sense that batteries are advertised as "marine" or "leisure" deep-cycle. That tends to really mean "we'll sell you these as deep-cycle but everyone knows that they really aren't".

Sorry, I think you are being misleaing, Trojan T105s are deep cycle period.
 
KellysEye said:
>...you are saying T105s are leisure batteries in the sense that batteries are advertised as "marine" or "leisure" deep-cycle. That tends to really mean "we'll sell you these as deep-cycle but everyone knows that they really aren't".

Sorry, I think you are being misleaing, Trojan T105s are deep cycle period.
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I'm obviously not explaining it very well. You had said they were designed as leisure batteries. I was trying to point out that they were most certainly not but was being a bit wooly so as not to offend. I think you've edited the quote too much to see what I intended.

KellysEye said:
We had two Trojan T105 6v batteries in series and were very happy with them as house batteries. As deep cycle they are designed as leisure batteries (used on golf carts) and can handle a deep discharge.
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>>That tends to really mean "we'll sell you these as deep-cycle but everyone knows that they really aren't".
The comment above was meant to it reinforce the view that leisure batteries were not proper deep cycle batteries and not to be confused with T105s.

It seems that we are in complete agreement but managed to explain it badly to each other.
 
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We are going to change our house batteries this year so this thread is very interesting. So, having looked around I came up with Rolls batteries
http://www.rolls-battery.com/pdf/S12-230AGM.pdf
as we are also constrained by space.
The Elecsol don’t seem too heavy or overpriced in comparison, I suppose everyone will make up their minds on various things and everyone else will have an opinion of why they should have done something else.
 
It still amazes me how many people seem to be unaware of the reality that 'deep cycle' and 'leisure' are not synonymous when applied to batteries. Leisure are a half way house between starter and deep cycle and can do both at a push
 
mlthomas said:
........ So, having looked around I came up with Rolls batteries http://www.rolls-battery.com/pdf/S12-230AGM.pdf.....
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Barden have this under Marine and Leisure, and if you look at the specs it says: "Rolls Battery has designed a Deep Cycle VRLA battery with high reserve capacity, long cycle life and low internal resistance, while achieving superior cranking performance."

The "superior cranking performance" suggests it is a dual purpose battery.

A high “Reserve Capacity” (RC), is the number of minutes a battery can maintain a useful voltage with a 25 amp discharge. It is a measure of how long you have got to get the car to a garage when the charging fault light comes on. Reserve Capacity is more often used for automotive starter batteries, so beware, any battery that describes their "Reserve Capacity" may not be a true “Deep Cycle” battery.
 
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