BGW
Well-Known Member
You are correct, that unless you have a good charging regime set up, it is pointless spending a lot on batteries.
Batteries hate being left flat and they hate being over charged.
Elecsol batteries - are the claims for real?
- Thread starter bluedragon
- Start date
You are correct, that unless you have a good charging regime set up, it is pointless spending a lot on batteries.
Batteries hate being left flat and they hate being over charged.
Andrew_Fanner
Well-Known Member
Having just swapped out some iffy batteries I happened to read the Sterling website on battery types while making sure I'd got the things connected up correctly to the charger (24V 25A). There is an interesting essay on battery types which seems to sum up as "decent truck battereies or genuine, and pay for them, traction types". Did not seem too keen on gel cells/matting filled batteries etc.
bluedragon
Well-Known Member
It's extremely difficult to know what to believe and what is hype. I've explored the motorhome forums a little further today (a major market for Elecsol it seems) and there are plenty of customers very happy with their Elecsol batteries, and a significant number who are not...and some who believe this is a one-man-band organisation that makes bogus claims with little if any foundation. There seems to be no wholly objective view on whether these guys have really developed the "wonder" battery, or are snake-oil salesmen. I suppose I could put one alongside my new truck battery for a year or so and see what happens! But there again I look after my batteries....
maxi77
Well-Known Member
I also potter around on some of the caravan and motorhome forums, and you would be surprised just how badly some treat their batteries. I am not surprised some of them have battery problems nor that battery manufacturers are reluctant to entertain warranty claims. Motor home usear and caravanners seem very happy to run their leisure batteries down to 0%, then expect a car alternator to charge it up to 100% with a couple of hours of driving. My pair seem to be OK after a years use, but I never run them down below 60% and use a decent charger.
Plevier
Well-Known Member
Elecsol's patent is quite old and superficially very simple. Battery electrode paste is conventionally reinforced with small fibres, typically polyester flock. The patent claims great benefits in strength and conductivity from replacing this with carbon fibre. The concentration is small, .15%W/W.
They specify the carbon fibre size and aspect ratio and say they must be "crystal" to give low resistivity. I've done a quick Google and can't find anything about "crystal" carbon fibre, or any variant of carbon fibre with a resistivity anywhere near the values the patent refers to. Can any materials man on here comment?
I'm really surprised the patent was granted as it's very general and there are examples of what appears to be prior art. Other people have experimented with carbon fibre and at least one group has reported good results.
However if it really works so well, I can't understand why no big manufacturer uses carbon fibre, either by license or by contesting the patent.
Why has it stayed with this tiny company that I don't believe even manufactures its own product?
I wish I could find out who makes it for them!
(Some big manufacturers are experimenting with a hybrid battery using a conventional positive electrode and a carbon negative. This is something different, Elecsol are not working in that field as far as I can see.)
They specify the carbon fibre size and aspect ratio and say they must be "crystal" to give low resistivity. I've done a quick Google and can't find anything about "crystal" carbon fibre, or any variant of carbon fibre with a resistivity anywhere near the values the patent refers to. Can any materials man on here comment?
I'm really surprised the patent was granted as it's very general and there are examples of what appears to be prior art. Other people have experimented with carbon fibre and at least one group has reported good results.
However if it really works so well, I can't understand why no big manufacturer uses carbon fibre, either by license or by contesting the patent.
Why has it stayed with this tiny company that I don't believe even manufactures its own product?
I wish I could find out who makes it for them!
(Some big manufacturers are experimenting with a hybrid battery using a conventional positive electrode and a carbon negative. This is something different, Elecsol are not working in that field as far as I can see.)
reeac
Well-Known Member
Elecsol batteries
The Elecsol batteries that I bought 4 years ago can definitely be topped up - I unscrewed all the tops a few weeks ago to check them. They didn't need anything added and so far I'm very happy with them.
The Elecsol batteries that I bought 4 years ago can definitely be topped up - I unscrewed all the tops a few weeks ago to check them. They didn't need anything added and so far I'm very happy with them.
bluedragon
Well-Known Member
As far as I recall, all carbon fibre is crystalline. It's this molecular alignment that provides the outstanding strength. However depending on the base polymer or material that is used in the mfg. process, it's possible that some grades have more conductivity than others.
But my question would be, why does the presence of a conductive high-tensile fibre in place of polyester flock mean the batteries are immune to sulphation as Elecsol claim? What electro-chemical process is occurring that is enhanced by these fibres? Any idea?
But my question would be, why does the presence of a conductive high-tensile fibre in place of polyester flock mean the batteries are immune to sulphation as Elecsol claim? What electro-chemical process is occurring that is enhanced by these fibres? Any idea?
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bluedragon
Well-Known Member
It looks like they might have changed them now to fully sealed according to their website "New sealed-for-life design".
bluedragon
Well-Known Member
The reason why I'm pushing for claim substantiation here is that as other posters have said, their Elecsols are working fine but they look after them and only take them to 50% SoC. Now, with due respect, any battery should last 4-5+ years if care is taken. What I want to know is whether the "1000 cycles to 80% DoD" claim is correct, because this takes them into the realm of true deep discharge at a fraction of the price. And nobody so-far is able to substantiate this.
Having just sat on a mooring buoy for three days with a knackered battery and having to run the engine 2-3 times a day, the benefit of being able to take batteries right down to a low SoC in these circumstances became very obvious. Why fill up my battery locker with 200Ah of lead if I can only use 50% of it and then have to disturb us, the wild life and other boaters with my diesel donking away! We have a windgen (but there was no wind)...I could fit solar panels (but it wasn't always sunny)...I could have switched the fridge off (but we had perishables in there). So...is Elecsol the answer to my dreams
or a big con? That's what I'm trying to find out.
Having just sat on a mooring buoy for three days with a knackered battery and having to run the engine 2-3 times a day, the benefit of being able to take batteries right down to a low SoC in these circumstances became very obvious. Why fill up my battery locker with 200Ah of lead if I can only use 50% of it and then have to disturb us, the wild life and other boaters with my diesel donking away! We have a windgen (but there was no wind)...I could fit solar panels (but it wasn't always sunny)...I could have switched the fridge off (but we had perishables in there). So...is Elecsol the answer to my dreams
or a big con? That's what I'm trying to find out.
BGW
Well-Known Member
The reason why I'm pushing for claim substantiation here is that as other posters have said, their Elecsols are working fine but they look after them and only take them to 50% SoC. Now, with due respect, any battery should last 4-5+ years if care is taken. What I want to know is whether the "1000 cycles to 80% DoD" claim is correct, because this takes them into the realm of true deep discharge at a fraction of the price. And nobody so-far is able to substantiate this.
Having just sat on a mooring buoy for three days with a knackered battery and having to run the engine 2-3 times a day, the benefit of being able to take batteries right down to a low SoC in these circumstances became very obvious. Why fill up my battery locker with 200Ah of lead if I can only use 50% of it and then have to disturb us, the wild life and other boaters with my diesel donking away! We have a windgen (but there was no wind)...I could fit solar panels (but it wasn't always sunny)...I could have switched the fridge off (but we had perishables in there). So...is Elecsol the answer to my dreams
I can only quote from experience - My Vetus 'marine deep discharge' batteries lasted less than three seasons with regular 40 to 50% discharge cycles. I always maintained them well with a 4 stage intelligent charger while on shore power and a 3 stage alternator charger (both from Sterling) while on the move.
I never left the batteries flat. I never over charged them. That equates to roughly 40 to 50 deep discharge cycles and whilst not completely dead, they had lost about 50% of their original capacity meaning I was needing to take a generator with me for long weekends.
The elecsol batteries I purchased promise a much higher deep discharge cycle life but I have not had them long enough to comment other than they are performing very well so far. - Only time will tell. In terms of cost, as I mentioned in an earlier post, they were no more expensive (in cost per AH capacity) than the Vetus ones.
I do not see them as a 'miracle cure' meaning I can abuse them, not charge them correctly and leave them flat. I would not expect them to last under those conditions, and it would be unfair to expect them to be changed under warranty after such treatment.
You can be sure that if they don't live up to expectations (and as long as I do not do anything to shorten their life prematurely) you will hear about it on these forums.
bluedragon
Well-Known Member
I personally agree with all your sentiments, but the above is exactly what they do promise "1000 cycles to 80%dod".
Here are some other statements from their website:
"All batteries are manufactured to provide a certain number of deep discharge cycles. The conventional leisure battery should give a cycling life of between 200 - 300 deep discharges. A Gel battery will give between 400 - 500 cycles and an AGM battery 600 - 800 cycles. The Elecsol batteries will give over 1000 deep discharge cycles"
"Another major reason for premature battery failure is due to the oxide shredding from the plate. Standard lead plates are bound only with acrylic and polyester fibres they do not serve as reinforcement of the plate. The cycling life of the Elecsol battery range is much greater than all other battery types because THE CARBON FIBRE ELIMINATES LEAD SULPHATION OF THE PLATES PERMANENTLY. Upon recharging, the original capacity will be replenished. Carbon Fibre acts as a mechanical reinforcement fibre to the lead grid and paste reducing oxide shredding"
"Unlike conventional batteries, the Elecsol battery range does not suffer from permanent lead sulphation, which is caused by leaving your battery in a discharged state or by overcharging."
This does sound like the "miracle" battery to me and I would expect them to offer a warranty on this basis, otherwise it's mis-selling surely?
EddieBlue
Active Member
I am a major supplier of Elecsol batteries in the motorhome market.
Both the Caravan Club and Which Motorhome have carried out comparrison tests with Elecsol coming out head and shoulders over other batteries, some cheaper some more expensive.
There has been some discussion in forums about customer service. It is fine, so long as you follow the rules! Get a new battery, fill out the warranty form. This gives you two years warranty with the supplier, and then three additional years warranty with Elecsol.
People ignore this or buy a van with Elecsol batteries on, and then start screaming and shouting that they had poor service. With proof of purchase, original IE yours, and a warranty card completed, at the time of purchase NOT when there is a problem, there are no problems
We have sold Elecsol batteries for over ten years, use them on our own RV's and when the boat is old enough to need the batteries replaced, I shall be having Elecsols fitted.
I would happy recommend them
Eddie
Both the Caravan Club and Which Motorhome have carried out comparrison tests with Elecsol coming out head and shoulders over other batteries, some cheaper some more expensive.
There has been some discussion in forums about customer service. It is fine, so long as you follow the rules! Get a new battery, fill out the warranty form. This gives you two years warranty with the supplier, and then three additional years warranty with Elecsol.
People ignore this or buy a van with Elecsol batteries on, and then start screaming and shouting that they had poor service. With proof of purchase, original IE yours, and a warranty card completed, at the time of purchase NOT when there is a problem, there are no problems
We have sold Elecsol batteries for over ten years, use them on our own RV's and when the boat is old enough to need the batteries replaced, I shall be having Elecsols fitted.
I would happy recommend them
Eddie
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bluedragon
Well-Known Member
Hi Eddie...just the man we want! BTW I like the style of your motorhome. It seems to float 
Let's put the warranty issue to one side...maybe you can answer the question "are the claims for real"? Do these batteries massively outperform any other leisure battery on the market with 1000 deep cycles at 80% DoD? Yes or No?
PS - do you sell these in Taunton? Might want to pick one up from you on my way down the M5?
Let's put the warranty issue to one side...maybe you can answer the question "are the claims for real"? Do these batteries massively outperform any other leisure battery on the market with 1000 deep cycles at 80% DoD? Yes or No?
PS - do you sell these in Taunton? Might want to pick one up from you on my way down the M5?
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BGW
Well-Known Member
Hi Eddie...just the man we want! BTW I like the style of your motorhome. It seems to float
Let's put the warranty issue to one side...maybe you can answer the question "are the claims for real"? Do these batteries massively outperform any other leisure battery on the market with 1000 deep cycles at 80% DoD? Yes or No?
PS - do you sell these in Taunton? Might want to pick one up from you on my way down the M5?
I think you may have misread the documentation, but even 750 cycles would be good.
bluedragon
Well-Known Member
It says 1000 cycles here in the spec. http://www.elecsolbatteries.com/products/Leisure-Batteries/Elecsol-110.html but I see it's different in the graphic???
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bluedragon
Well-Known Member
Perhaps Eddie can enlighten us? The graphic here also shows the Ah capacity of the 110 battery as 105Ah. Is the 110 rating not at a 20hr rate I wonder?
No big deal as you say even 750 cycles is excellent, but it worries me that these figures don't all tally.
Eddie - can you clarify one other point. Are these batteries (the 110 or 125Ah leisure versions) now completely sealed or is it possible to check/replenish the electrolyte?
No big deal as you say even 750 cycles is excellent, but it worries me that these figures don't all tally.
Eddie - can you clarify one other point. Are these batteries (the 110 or 125Ah leisure versions) now completely sealed or is it possible to check/replenish the electrolyte?
Plevier
Well-Known Member
This is an example of why I find the website claims badly prepared, unclear and unconvincing (and in some places inconsistent too).
In the quote above it should read shedding not shredding. Paste shedding is one of the causes of deterioration. It may be that carbon fibre will reduce shedding if it gives the paste more strength. However that is no grounds for claiming elimination of sulphation, which they seem to link with it.
Also how does the carbon fibre "reinforce the grid" when it's in the paste.
Similarly the claim of "over 1000 deep discharge cycles" is pretty meaningless without more figures around it detailing the discharge, recharge and how they define failure e.g. at what percentage of original capacity.
Bosun Higgs
N/A
The fully charged voltage of a lead acid battery is 2.1 to 2.13 volts per cell ie 12.78 max. The 13.6 you see is the float voltage of the regulator and when you disconnect it, you leave some excess charge on the plates. This gradually decays down to the 12.7 if left alone but goes to 12.7 very fast if you start drawing leccy from the battery.
Ricd
Well-Known Member
Hi Blue Dragon...following conversation on pontoon at QAB I have checked date my 2x Electsol 125AH were installed....29/4/08 and still doing the business. The charging is managed by on shore power via a Sterling Procharger and from alternator via a Sterling digital advanced regulator.
Cheers
Cheers