Elan 310... I'm in love!

monkfish24

monkfish24

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Wandering Around SIBS yesterday and i noticed this Handsome Bugger lurking around the Moody's
http://www.premiermarinas.com/pages/elan_310

It pretty much fit's my bill perfectly for my next yacht. (I know i've only just bought one but you have to have something to aim for) It's nice to look at IMO, below it's your normal production build; roomy, basic, but nice finish, very practical and it all looks easy to keep clean. The interior layout is thought out, it's got good cruising capabilities with it's performance along with having a bow spirit for an assymetric which will always help in racing. :D She's not too big to start worrying about marina fee's yet not too small to find uncomfortable to live on for extended periods(which is my plan)

I'm planning on becoming debt free in the next 2 years and will be looking seriously at my next boat.

Question is, how would a normal person like me, on a normal wage, with a particularly expensive pastime when it comes to buying brand new, be able to finance something like this without huge amounts of intrest . I'm really not interested in property, i'd rather buy a comfortable boat.
 
Firstly, your love and adoration is based upom everything but the most important factor. You have not sailed the damn thing.

Secondly, it's a mortgage. Boats depreciate slowly so you can mortgage them. That's how we do it.
 
The twin rudder arrangement on a boat that size is just silly. Open 60s have them but the windward rudder lifts. You dont need two rudders but it creates shed loads of drag... but looks the part. It's all talk and no trousers.

And that's just the start.

There have been some bloody brilliant Elan's over the years, no matter what the snobs call you, but there are some things that are stuck on to performance cruisers for the purposes of selling yachts, not to make them sail faster or work better.
 
To your first post, don't worry, i don't plan on spending that amount of money without sailing her first :D

i understand what you mean about the twin rudder design, i have never sailed with a boat with twin rudders and in theory i understand what your saying, the rudders do look quite small though for the size of the boat which they may have factored in. I've got two years to look around the market and i'm sure there will be other boats that come up on a very similar design so needless to say, my heart is set but my head is still in control over this one.

As said before this is a lot of money for me and will be the largest purchase of my life so far (i've not been around that long remember :) )

what companys would i be looking at for marine mortgages?

James
 
Your broker will be happy to recommend the one that pays him commision. But basically, they are simply finance companies. Lombard is one, there are many more, there will have been dozens running stands or supporting builders at SIBS. I'm surprised you didn't see any, I try to keep out of their grips.
 
The picture of the insides looks horrible. It doesn't look like a real boat and this from a man who owns a Jeanneau.
 
Make sure you sail it in something resembling heavy weather.
I sailed the Elan 43, went to windward like a witch in flat sea and light airs, was a bitch in 30 to 35 knots of wind and only 1 metre waves. Kept rounding up when on a broad reach with rudder useless, only way to get it to go in that direction was by dropping the main - and even then very hard work to steer.
 
monkfish24 said:
It pretty much fit's my bill perfectly for my next yacht. (I know i've only just bought one but you have to have something to aim for) It's nice to look at IMO...
Click to expand...

Hmm. That big square stern and open transom make it look like a car ferry to me, but each to their own. However, on a practical note, how do these open transoms work out? Aren't they a big wet with an aft or quartering sea?
 
Judders said:
The twin rudder arrangement on a boat that size is just silly. Open 60s have them but the windward rudder lifts. You dont need two rudders but it creates shed loads of drag... but looks the part. It's all talk and no trousers.
Click to expand...

The addition of a second rudder is nothing to do with the length of the boat, but everything to do with the shape of the boat. Her wide, flat transom means a single rudder would start to lift out when she heels, and control would be lost. I expect she'll go like a rocket off the wind.

Back to the question though, if you own a property it's normally cheaper to remortgage the house to raise money for the boat. Boats are a riskier asset. Also, the bigger deposit you can raise, the cheaper your loan will be. The longer you spend raising a deposit, the more second hand ones will be coming on to the market, with better equipment levels, and for less money; there's no rush.

Personally, I wouldn't do it though.

“What a ship is, you know, it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails,
that's what a ship needs. But what a ship is,... really is, is freedom."

What a marine mortgage is, is a chain around your neck. You're stuck in your job for the next x years while you pay it off. If you lose your job, you have to get another one PDQ, you have no chance of taking some time off to cruise, living off mackerel and seaweed.
 
Elan sails past the rest

We are in the 4th year of Elan ownership andhave been delighted with the performance of our 333. I would be amazed if a new Rob Humphries design does not slip through the water upsetting most of the competition. Not racing? the heck you aren't. As someone put it to me, any two boats sailing in the same direction make a race. The boats you glide past will have to comfort themselves with claiming to be more seaworthy. Sure a lightweight hull will have a more lively motion, but you can be sure of good windward performance getting you to your destination hours earlier and it will be great fun on the way. Isn't that what many of us sail for?
 
orbister said:
Hmm. That big square stern and open transom make it look like a car ferry to me, but each to their own. However, on a practical note, how do these open transoms work out? Aren't they a big wet with an aft or quartering sea?
Click to expand...

I used to race an old IOR 1/4 tonner, open transom. Never once had a following sea invited itself into the cockpit and the worst we've been in was about 4metre waves. Plenty of yachts have open transoms, if it was uncomfortable i would have thought it would be phased out by now.

Everyone has thier own opinions about different yachts, my opinion is set on this boat, my question is about financing something like this so many thanks with replys regarding that matter :)
 
monkfish24 said:
.

Everyone has thier own opinions about different yachts, my opinion is set on this boat, my question is about financing something like this so many thanks with replys regarding that matter :)
Click to expand...

Buying a new boat on somebody elses money is on a par with buying a new Alfa Romeo on HP. Pleasant way of losing money!

On a serious note, the biggies in marine finance anre Lombard and Barclays. They are hiding a bit at the moment because they don't particularly want customers as they have had their hands full with repossessions recently. Marine mortgages are usualy quoted a X% above Finance House Base Rate (usually X is around 3-4%) and terms are usually over a maximum of 15 years, but normally 10. Repayments are normally set at fixed amounts so the term goes up or down depending on the base rate change. You used to be able to get 80% advance, but this has shrunk now to maybe 70%. Usually there is a minimum amount/value of boat so they don't do small deals and usually the boat has to be Part 1 registered so that they can register security.

You can understand why people prefer to borrow against their property as it is much cheaper and less hassle. Dedicated marine finance suits people who have strong cash flows but low security - and perhaps are moving up the ladder with regular changes of boats which they never actually pay off completely!

There is lots of useful information on the RYA site on buying a boat.
 
Tranona said:
Buying a new boat on somebody elses money is on a par with buying a new Alfa Romeo on HP. Pleasant way of losing money!

On a serious note, the biggies in marine finance are Lombard and Barclays. They are hiding a bit at the moment because they don't particularly want customers as they have had their hands full with repossessions recently.
Click to expand...

Their pile of repossessions is an opportunity for a few of us. My brother's luck was definitely in a few years ago when he spotted a small advert from Lombard, quietly selling on a "repo". It was a John Corby one-off ULDB, and it's still the fastest yacht I've ever sailed.
 
Judders said:
The twin rudder arrangement on a boat that size is just silly. Open 60s have them but the windward rudder lifts. You dont need two rudders but it creates shed loads of drag... but looks the part. It's all talk and no trousers.
Click to expand...

non sense, we have twin rudders on our beneteau 343 and love it!
 
Monkfish24 - this Forum malarky gets better and better. I am a normal guy who has become debt free. One year ago I settled my Mortgage after 6 years of hard saving.

I saved a wee bit more and paid a 20% deposit on a certain boat over 41 feet but less than 46 feet. The rest was borrowed from Barclays Marine Mortgage at 2% above BOE Base Rate, fixed monthly payments, 10 years term. At the moment most of the premium is paying off debt as opposed to interest i.e. depending on interest payments it will take me more or less than the 10 years term to pay off debt.

I chose a sound late 70s vessel with a pedigree bought at the end of the season. The vessel required some items replacing which I used to negotiate the price down. The boat was for sale for a wee while before I bought her, so the owner was keen to sell. There are loads of good boats, going for low prices built around the 70s that are not selling. My own boat was less than £45k. Barclays were very easy to deal with.

If its racing your into there are even smaller boats around for £30-40 thousand, the Sigma 33 being a notable vessel.

I replaced the rigging, prop shaft, shaft couplings and fuel lines / filter housings, engine mounts for about £8 grand in total. The first winter was a bit of a shock as I wasn't used to spending, but once I got comfortable with the improvements being made, I learned to live with it.

This year I have been saving hard again to pay off the marine debt. Then I will be living my dream. That's about 2 years away.

I am an ordinary bloke, with an ordinary salary with a SWMBO, 2 sprogs, a dog, rabbit and 2 stick insects. I don't own a flat screen TV and only recently got a computer.

My point is that it is possible for ordinary folks to sail about without being up to their eyes in debt. I look at new boats such as a Bavaria at £90 grand for 30 feet and it does not compare to what I have. I have had some great sails, loads of laughs, plenty of family and friends to sail with, a big boat, fully equipped.

Sorry if I appear a bit vague about the boat, I am just keeping it as private as possible while sharing some thoughts on what can be done.

Think carefully before jumping out of the fire and into the frying pan.
 
johnphilip said:
We are in the 4th year of Elan ownership andhave been delighted with the performance of our 333. I would be amazed if a new Rob Humphries design does not slip through the water upsetting most of the competition. Not racing? the heck you aren't. As someone put it to me, any two boats sailing in the same direction make a race. The boats you glide past will have to comfort themselves with claiming to be more seaworthy. Sure a lightweight hull will have a more lively motion, but you can be sure of good windward performance getting you to your destination hours earlier and it will be great fun on the way. Isn't that what many of us sail for?
Click to expand...

No - I don't care who gets to windward before me and a faster boat is just that - faster, not a competitor. I suspect that many sailors think much the same. Its being on the water and messing about in boats that is fun - whether cruising or racing........

........ just as long as I am having more fun than them, mind you!
 
looks like the lardy cousin of a sunfast 3200, I would go for the sunfast. £110k would get me a pogo 10.5 which I would still be able to get up Bradwell creek.

I'll keep putting the pennies away for now.
 
No disrespect to your taste, monkfish, but that is an incredibly ugly boat.

I wouldn't normally post something so unconstructive, but this is quite the exception.
 
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