EGT is this the correct location ?

[simonfraser]

I have an EGT alarm fitted external the turbo outlet of a KAD 44 EDC ?
Is this the correct location, you can see it just tied round the green vertical pipe behind the diagonal rubber hose.
And would the corrosion on the turbo be of concern ?

 

[jrudge]

Turbo has a gasket and that fails over time. I have just had mine replaced.

For an alarm it should work - just accept that the temperature of all of these things is related to location, so you will need to decide an alarm temp you can live with that does not usually go off - you wont be able to look up a value as the value will vary with location.

 

[simonfraser]

Turbo has a gasket and that fails over time. I have just had mine replaced.

For an alarm it should work - just accept that the temperature of all of these things is related to location, so you will need to decide an alarm temp you can live with that does not usually go off - you wont be able to look up a value as the value will vary with location.

tnx, the gap in the silver foil you can see above the turbo is the only ready access, that enough to replace the gasket ?
does this 'just' come apart, as in no fluid leaks ?

and that would be the best time to fit an EGT sensor too ?
drill the hole just above the existing external EGT alarm ?

 

[Portofino]

In terms of getting a handle on overloading re high cylinder temps it need to be before the turbo .
Or just after and recalibrated because the turbo takes approx a slug of 200 degrees of heat out .

Certainly does not want be after any water injection .

Where it is now strapped on what appears after a water injection is useless info for overloading but might indicate a rise in temp ( bit late ) if the water supply injection fails quicker than the Heat exchanger water temp rise ie your water gauge rising to over 95 or what ever .

 

[BruceK]

tnx, the gap in the silver foil you can see above the turbo is the only ready access, that enough to replace the gasket ?
does this 'just' come apart, as in no fluid leaks ?

and that would be the best time to fit an EGT sensor too ?
drill the hole just above the existing external EGT alarm ?

Taking the turbo on and off is a relatively simple job that is made massively difficult because of it's location. It's surprisingly heavy given you have to put it back at arms length at an angle and not drop nuts and spanners into the bilge. Personally I have never experienced a gasket issue, they are pretty sturdy. In fact taking the old ones off and cleaning the mating faces was a job in itself. However the same cannot be said for the silicon O rings that seal the air intake and and exhaust of the blown side (not exhaust side). You can feel the air coming out but the giveaway is they squeak like a pinched balloon deflating if the have gone.
It's pretty easy to check if any of the gaskets or seals have gone. I wouldn't be in a rush to pull it all apart to check. It can be real awkward to put it all back together given it's location and the space you have. Much better to just check for signs of leakage and check boost pressures. See Farsco's neat and cheap solution on that score.

 

[kashurst]

I strongly suspect what you have fitted is an exhaust temperature sensor that is there to warn you if you loose cooling water. It doesn’t measure EGT. You need an adaptor between the turbo and the exhaust elbow with a screw in sensor suitable for 800 degs C. If you google it you will find pics.

 

[jrudge]

I strongly suspect what you have fitted is an exhaust temperature sensor that is there to warn you if you loose cooling water. It doesn’t measure EGT. You need an adaptor between the turbo and the exhaust elbow with a screw in sensor suitable for 800 degs C. If you google it you will find pics.

You are 100% correct if you want to measure egt but I would not think it matters if you just want to alarm it. All aircraft ones that I have seen ( lycoming ) are bolted on the exhaust tube not in the flow.

If per Porto there is water there then I am wrong , but water as far as I know is injected much later in the pipework

 

[simonfraser]

Tnx, yes it does appear to me to be in a location that is water cooled, not appropriate for internal EGT

Bruce, does the rust / corrosion look like a ‘problem’ gasket issue to you ?
How to check, or leave it alone ?

Ok, so here is the top of a KAD 44, where is the inlet to the turbo ?
That would be the best place for an EGT sensor ?
Don’t what to have to compensate for the turbo ‘cooling’

 

[Portofino]

Red hatch on the exhaust manifold ( under the black plastic inlet stuff )

 

[BruceK]

Tnx, yes it does appear to me to be in a location that is water cooled, not appropriate for internal EGT

Bruce, does the rust / corrosion look like a ‘problem’ gasket issue to you ?
How to check, or leave it alone ?

’

I am not saying it isn't a gasket issue, only that I have never found the gaskets to be a problem. Who knows, maybe it was not torqued down correctly. Maybe I haven't left mine alone long enough for a gasket to go. All I am saying is it's an awkward bit of kit to put back on even though it's a simple job in itself. Personally I would first look for the easy outs as the turbo gasket set doesn't come cheap. I'd look to see that that raw water feed pipe isn't or hasn't been dribbling. The rubber pipe on it looks newish. That there is no corrosion where it fits on the flange. I'd check to see how high the exhaust elbow is above the waterline and the clamp that connects it to the turbo is snug and in good order. I'd check the bilge for water and condensation because the underside of the turbo is not the only place that is showing rust. I'd check the exhaust elbow hasn't corroded under the rubber bellow allowing a bit of water and gas to dribble out. I'd only take the turbo off to replace the gasket after I had exhausted all the easy or more obvious options

 

[BruceK]

deleted

 

[Mr Googler]

View attachment 78144

Red hatch on the exhaust manifold ( under the black plastic inlet stuff )

Don’t start drilling in that. The exhaust manifold is coolant cooled and feeds the turbo with coolant.

No idea if there’s an area where a probe could be successful drilled and placed without hitting the coolant channels.

Volvopaul is the man to ask.

 

[superheat6k]

Having seen the immense damage over emphasis on the importance of exhaust gas temperatures can have when an idiot then lets loose with his spanners inside the fuel pumps of some very large diesel generators, my clear view of this is that EGT is a subject best entirely avoided by boaters. Plenty of other things to worry about, which is why there is so little emphasis or gauges available and fitted to measure such a nicety.

Far better to be measuring the temperature after the water injection - if the seawater flow fails for any reason, then the outlet will be the first part to (rapidly) overheat, and if you strip leave space for extra gauges then something far more useful such as Turbo boost pressure, or fuel filter pressure after the pre-filters (vacuum level).

 

[Portofino]

Having seen the immense damage over emphasis on the importance of exhaust gas temperatures can have when an idiot then lets loose with his spanners inside the fuel pumps of some very large diesel generators, my clear view of this is that EGT is a subject best entirely avoided by boaters. Plenty of other things to worry about, which is why there is so little emphasis or gauges available and fitted to measure such a nicety.

Far better to be measuring the temperature after the water injection - if the seawater flow fails for any reason, then the outlet will be the first part to (rapidly) overheat, and if you strip leave space for extra gauges then something far more useful such as Turbo boost pressure, or fuel filter pressure after the pre-filters (vacuum level).

I don’t think anyone is suggesting pratting about with the fuel rack in order to effect a change of EGT .
I think it’s more to be kind to the engines and thus extend the longevity and minimise forward repairs .
To do with fouling , overloading in terms of kg,s and in this case changing the props to effectively a bigger one .
The OP has already said he can’t reach max rated rpm ( from his instruments thus far ) with his new prop .

They are a useful in a basket of measurements particularly with load .
A lot of Americans, professional sport fishers run for a few hours to the grounds and back don’t like exceeding 80 % load or prolonged raised EGTs .

These guys are doing 1000 ,s of hrs and heavily invested in there kit .

Shine the spotlight on ave leisure boater , perhaps seasonal and you may have a point as they don’t just do the time / hrs to justify looking after there “ babes “ in terms of making a difference between lasting 2000 hrs or 15000 hrs .
Or are serial boat buyers who in a you reap what you sow kinda way will never see the effects of prolonged elevation of EGT because they sell the boat every 3 years or sooner !That parcel is passed on .

Personally I,am fortunate to have 16 parameters available via the MAN screens .
I set my cruise on load 80 % based on the consensus from the professional American sport fishing community.
EGTs I keep sub 600 ,currently running at 1780 rpm 540 degrees and 27/ 28 knots at 77 % load burning 89 L per side . 1/2 tanks
Those numbers change as the season progress or Kg,s are added .
You see it’s not a 2017 boat with a view to dump it after a few seasons .
It’s a boat with 2003 , 890 hrs engines , I feel it needs a bit of sympathy and TLC as I have zero plans of getting rid of it .

I feel the load and EGTs are particularly useful in prop fouling .
Don’t underestimate the damage of running about with fouled props .
It’s not just the reduced speed ( which you may accept?) it’s the elevated EGTs .
Kinda extra motivation for a stern gear scrub .

As far as water pressure goes we have ( MAN s ) “ inlet water pressure “ delta anyhow .
“Turbo boost pressure “and even “charge air temp “ so plenty to go at really to monitor engine health .

 

[superheat6k]

I don’t think anyone is suggesting pratting about with the fuel rack in order to effect a change of EGT .
I think it’s more to be kind to the engines and thus extend the longevity and minimise forward repairs .
To do with fouling , overloading in terms of kg,s and in this case changing the props to effectively a bigger one .
The OP has already said he can’t reach max rated rpm ( from his instruments thus far ) with his new prop .

They are a useful in a basket of measurements particularly with load .
A lot of Americans, professional sport fishers run for a few hours to the grounds and back don’t like exceeding 80 % load or prolonged raised EGTs .

These guys are doing 1000 ,s of hrs and heavily invested in there kit .

Shine the spotlight on ave leisure boater , perhaps seasonal and you may have a point as they don’t just do the time / hrs to justify looking after there “ babes “ in terms of making a difference between lasting 2000 hrs or 15000 hrs .
Or are serial boat buyers who in a you reap what you sow kinda way will never see the effects of prolonged elevation of EGT because they sell the boat every 3 years or sooner !That parcel is passed on .

Personally I,am fortunate to have 16 parameters available via the MAN screens .
I set my cruise on load 80 % based on the consensus from the professional American sport fishing community.
EGTs I keep sub 600 ,currently running at 1780 rpm 540 degrees and 27/ 28 knots at 77 % load burning 89 L per side . 1/2 tanks
Those numbers change as the season progress or Kg,s are added .
You see it’s not a 2017 boat with a view to dump it after a few seasons .
It’s a boat with 2003 , 890 hrs engines , I feel it needs a bit of sympathy and TLC as I have zero plans of getting rid of it .

I feel the load and EGTs are particularly useful in prop fouling .
Don’t underestimate the damage of running about with fouled props .
It’s not just the reduced speed ( which you may accept?) it’s the elevated EGTs .
Kinda extra motivation for a stern gear scrub .

As far as water pressure goes we have ( MAN s ) “ inlet water pressure “ delta anyhow .
“Turbo boost pressure “and even “charge air temp “ so plenty to go at really to monitor engine health .

If you understand 'POI' and 'Lift Pressure' without having to google or do other research upon these terms then fine, spend lots of money on a measurement that realistically is giving you highly refined measurements, that are even then open to considerable misinterpretation.

Most diesel engine users know that oil pressure and avoiding excess temperature is important. Millions of bus and truck drivers do not give a sh1t of such things, let alone EGT, yet their vehicles will likely do 1,000,000 miles on the same engine, and with very few oil changes. So I do think worrying about EGT is simply over thinking it, and as I have said I do have direct experience of such nonsense being mis-applied - a little knowledge was certainly the issue then.

Personally, and of course this is just an opinion, I would chuck the EGT sensor in the nearest bin.

 

[simonfraser]

tnx all, food for thought for sure.
regarding the turbo gasket, i have not seen rust in other areas of the kad, so perhaps its condensation, but you'd think that would be general. no fluid leaks into the bilge.

have a laser rev meter with me today, so will start with checking the rev counter.

good point re volvopaul for the EGT sensor, i'm certainly not about to drill holes in it without good guidance

 

[petem]

Having seen the immense damage over emphasis on the importance of exhaust gas temperatures can have when an idiot then lets loose with his spanners inside the fuel pumps of some very large diesel generators, my clear view of this is that EGT is a subject best entirely avoided by boaters. Plenty of other things to worry about, which is why there is so little emphasis or gauges available and fitted to measure such a nicety.

Far better to be measuring the temperature after the water injection - if the seawater flow fails for any reason, then the outlet will be the first part to (rapidly) overheat, and if you strip leave space for extra gauges then something far more useful such as Turbo boost pressure, or fuel filter pressure after the pre-filters (vacuum level).

I'm with you T. If EGT gauges were that necessary, VP would have fitted them. To me, adding them is just yet another thing to go wring.

If you want to avoid unnecessary load on your engines then run them under 75% throttle. Don't push them forward to compensate for fouling / excess weight.

 

[MapisM]

If you want to avoid unnecessary load on your engines then run them under 75% throttle. Don't push them forward to compensate for fouling / excess weight.

I'm afraid it's not that simple, P.
IIRC one of the lessons that the esteemed professor LS1 (aka diesel engine bible) teached to all of us, is that it's indeed possible to overload an engine also below its rated rpm.
In fact, by putting the throttles at say 75%, what you are doing is demanding the engines to reach a certain RPM, regardless of the load necessary to reach it.
So, in case of abnormal conditions (fouled hull/props, overloaded boat, too long props, you name it), the engine might actually run at 100% load also below its max rpm, because it takes a higher than normal load to reach the RPM which you are demanding with the throttle position.
In the worst case, when the engine can't reach the RPM you are demanding (even if the throttles are not yet at WOT), it actually keeps trying, hence running in a constantly overloaded condition, with the EGT skyrocketing and all the nasty consequences that this implies. :ambivalence:

That said, back to your first statement:

If EGT gauges were that necessary, VP would have fitted them. To me, adding them is just yet another thing to go wring.

I sympathize with your view, since I also don't have EGT on my mechanical engines.
The very simple reason why EGT only became popular with the advent of electronically controlled engines is that, together with several other parameters, it became an input for the ECU, which in turn feeds the engine accordingly.
So, showing also those parameters on a display came with the territory, so to speak.
But one thing I found out which is worth considering, is that the very same engines that I've got on my boat were also installed in some fast patrol boats. And in those installations, EGT probes and gauges were indeed fitted.
Now, it's obvious that in military applications the risk of overstressing the engines is higher than in pleasure boats.
Otoh, that puts in perspective the view that EGT couldn't be so relevant just because it wasn't fitted, I reckon...

 

[CLB]

When Volvo fit an EGT to this engine, and they do but only on shaft drive versions, they fit it in between the turbo and the exhaust elbow, so after the turbo.

 

[Portofino]

I'm with you T. If EGT gauges were that necessary, VP would have fitted them. To me, adding them is just yet another thing to go wring.

.

There’s a lot of things VP could or should do , let’s not drift there suffice to say it’s not clear which side of the corporation makes the most , the sales or after sales .
Your FL Targa “ GTO “ 63 at 30 knots I bet would raise an eyebrow EGT wise if ever that info entered into the public domain .