Tranona
Well-Known Member
Thank you, bearing in mind that not all registers are registers of title, but like the Part 3 SSR a register of nationality.
Effects of Brexit on sailing under UK flag?
- Thread starter HelloBoat
- Start date
Thank you, bearing in mind that not all registers are registers of title, but like the Part 3 SSR a register of nationality.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
There is of course another possible angle. If the OP is also considering taking up residence in the EU he may be eligible for "Returning resident" relief that would allow him to potentially import a boat as a chattel and avoid VAT. It could then move freely around the EU.
jordanbasset
Well-Known Member
Hello all,
Been lurking on this forum for a while now and figured I might as well sign up and participate
I have a question in regards to the Brexit and flying the UK flag.
I am currently considering buying a boat. I am a European living in the US for work atm
Not sure what European nationality you are but if possible I would register it in your 'home country' unless your Italian, where the current favourite country to register a boat seems to be the Netherlands for some reason
HelloBoat
Member
Wow lot of responses, love it!
Buying a boat in the US is not an option because of the difference in power 60Hz, 110V etc, would have to ship it to EU then as well.
My family is still in EU so I am looking to get a sea worthy boat to go anywhere from NL to IT.
I have somewhat odd requirements as to boats I guess because there only seem a few models that have what I am looking for so my options are limited. Therefor I am currently looking at a few boats in Italy and Spain, both used and VAT paid. If I keep that boat within the EU I would be able to retain the VAT paid status. If I would register the boat outside of the EU I presumably loose the VAT paid status.
I am Dutch, have the dutch nationality but am living in the US on work visa. Therefor at the moment I would qualify for TA.
If I move back and become a EU resident again I believe I would not be able to qualify for TA.
Buying a boat in the US is not an option because of the difference in power 60Hz, 110V etc, would have to ship it to EU then as well.
My family is still in EU so I am looking to get a sea worthy boat to go anywhere from NL to IT.
I have somewhat odd requirements as to boats I guess because there only seem a few models that have what I am looking for so my options are limited. Therefor I am currently looking at a few boats in Italy and Spain, both used and VAT paid. If I keep that boat within the EU I would be able to retain the VAT paid status. If I would register the boat outside of the EU I presumably loose the VAT paid status.
I am Dutch, have the dutch nationality but am living in the US on work visa. Therefor at the moment I would qualify for TA.
If I move back and become a EU resident again I believe I would not be able to qualify for TA.
Contest1
Well-Known Member
Regarding an Irish Small Craft register, one is promiced by 2018 by Government but the latest info from the Irish Sailing Association is that there is little progress and the ISA is meeting the Department for an update in the Autumn.
My boat is currently in Spain and on the SSR. Hope the Irish equivalent is available before Bexit is finalised.
macd
Well-Known Member
Regardless of flag, if it's VAT paid and not "exported"**, it retains that status. It's a fundamental of EU fiscal arrangements that a thing cannot have VAT levied on it twice unless an applicable VATable event has occurred. An EU national buying a used EU boat in the EU would not be such an event. (I'm sure there'd be riots if it were.) Temporary Importation would be irrelevant.
Can't see why you'd want a UK flag, anyway, if you're Dutch (but then I'm not at all familiar with Dutch registry requirements. If onerous, I gather Belgian registration is convenient and popular.)
** "Exported" means more than simply leaving EU waters. It means being sold outside the EU, or taken outside the EU continuously for more than three years. Even in the latter case, if returned under the same ownership as it left, it would probably qualify for tax relief.
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HelloBoat
Member
I can setup a UK company online within hours for very low fees. To open a similar company in the Netherlands I would have to go to a notary, pay 15x and it will take weeks.
I can't just put the boat on my name because at the moment I am not a resident.
So if I would do it under a UK company, I figured I might as well sail under a UK flag unless something major would come up here on this forum after I posted my question.
I understand all that but if I buy a used boat with VAT paid and I register it for let's say on the cayman islands I am loosing that VAT paid status because I export the boat out of the EU as far as I can tell. So if I would ever come to the point that I would want to sell the boat again, I am facing a serious downside if I want to sell in the EU. So in my mind, UK company would be the fastest and easiest right?
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Flag of registry has nothing to do with VAT. If you bought a boat in Europe that is VAT paid (and almost all are) you can take it anywhere you want including outside the EU IF you bring it back in yourself (that is not selling it to somebody else) in a reasonable time (up to 3 years is the norm) without it losing its status. It is an EU boat by virtue of the payment of VAT.
You are making this all too complicated. The only reason for having it registered is so that you can visit countries other than the one where it is registered. In most cases in the EU you can also base it in another country. It can be registered in, say, your wife's name (if you have one!) but then it is wise for the registered "owner" to be on board in some countries, although in most a letter of authority is sufficient. Have you actually checked that Dutch registration has a residency requirement and not citizenship? I expect it is either/or rather than just residency.
You do not need to set up a company to own a boat. There are no restrictions on non residents, or indeed non citizens owning a boat personally in the EU. The only reason for using a company for the UK register is because as a non citizen, non resident you do not qualify as an individual but a UK corporate body does. If you do want to go down that route then suggest you use either the Jersey or Guernsey register as generally they are more used to this type of arrangement. It makes no legal difference to using the boat in the EU and keeping it VAT paid, but does sometimes attract a bit more attention. It will be unlikely to change after Brexit provided you buy a boat where VAT was paid in one of the remaining 27 EU states.
This all points to buying a boat in the Netherlands. This is a very good place to buy used boats and pretty sure a good broker will deal with your specific issues correctly.
Heckler
Well-Known Member
Thats what a mate of mine did with a 72 ft er! Plus a 40 ft container with amongst other things in it a brand new Hog and a Toyota pickup
lw395
Well-Known Member
Or buy a boat while the OP is still working in the US. Enjoy it on that side of the Atlantic for a while. Import it as personal goods if you can.
Try to buy something which has an EU small craft coding.
Buy the boat you want, not a tax status.
Depends what you want and what you want to do.
moomba
N/A
I am led to believe that if you register the boat as a British company then it must go on Part 1 Registration and the implications that that involves I have just taken a boat of part 1 and registered it part 3, as part one registration was running out and part 3 was less expensive less restrictive in naming her and less hassle with documentation.
moomba
N/A
Notes – How to complete the application
For vessels to be registered on Part 1, please list the qualified owners first and draw a line under them, before entering the unqualified
owners.
A vessel can be registered on Part 1 if the majority interest (i.e. 33 shares) is owned by persons qualified to be the owner/s of the vessel.
Notes on status
Qualified owners are:
(a) British citizens or non-United Kingdom nationals exercising their right of freedom of movement of workers or right of establishment
under Article 48 or 52 of the EEC Treaty or Article 28 or 31 of the EEA Agreement;
(b) British Dependent Territories citizens;
(c) British Overseas citizens;
(d) Persons who under the British Nationality Order 1981 are British subjects;
(e) Persons who under the Hong Kong (British Nationality) Order 1986 are British Nationals (Overseas);
(f) Bodies corporate incorporated in an EEA State;
(g) Bodies corporate incorporated in any relevant British Possession and having their principal place of business in the UK or any such
possession;
(h) European Economic Interest Groupings formed in pursuance in the UK
For vessels to be registered on Part 1, please list the qualified owners first and draw a line under them, before entering the unqualified
owners.
A vessel can be registered on Part 1 if the majority interest (i.e. 33 shares) is owned by persons qualified to be the owner/s of the vessel.
Notes on status
Qualified owners are:
(a) British citizens or non-United Kingdom nationals exercising their right of freedom of movement of workers or right of establishment
under Article 48 or 52 of the EEC Treaty or Article 28 or 31 of the EEA Agreement;
(b) British Dependent Territories citizens;
(c) British Overseas citizens;
(d) Persons who under the British Nationality Order 1981 are British subjects;
(e) Persons who under the Hong Kong (British Nationality) Order 1986 are British Nationals (Overseas);
(f) Bodies corporate incorporated in an EEA State;
(g) Bodies corporate incorporated in any relevant British Possession and having their principal place of business in the UK or any such
possession;
(h) European Economic Interest Groupings formed in pursuance in the UK
Tranona
Well-Known Member
It is not a good idea to let Part 1 lapse. Although the charge is higher than Part 3 it it is a very different kind of registration in that it registers your title to the boat which part 3 does not. No more complicated - just forms to fill in and money to pay to transfer into your name and when you come to sell you will bless your decision to pay a few pounds extra as buyers are generally much happier buying a registered boat as that gives extra security that they will have good title.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
+1.
HelloBoat
Member
It is a possibility however electrical installation might become an issue on long term stay in the EU given that the US works at 120V @ 60hz
HelloBoat
Member
Wouldn't a UK company be "(g) Bodies corporate incorporated in any relevant British Possession and having their principal place of business in the UK or any such
possession;" ? What issues do you think I would encounter?
Kukri
Well-Known Member
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Not difficult to change the shorepower to 240V so that is not a deal breaker. However the biggest problem as I mentioned earlier is that most boats that you can buy in the US do not meet the requirements of the RCD so cannot easily or economically get a CE mark and be legally imported into the EU. Add to that the cost of getting the boat over and paying duty and VAT and it is not viable - UNLESS you are taking advantage of the Returning Resident rules I described earlier.
lw395
Well-Known Member
There are plenty of boats out there with electrical systems capable of working outside the US.
Uricanejack
Well-Known Member
It doesn't seam to be a problem for Russian gangsters. A Red Ensign is apparently a popular fashion statement for them.
Are working in the US but not a permanent resident. Or are you a permeant resident.
I wonder why you don't want a US flag vessel. The US Flag is available to residents and state registration is quite easy. My boat is registered in Oregon not a problem. I would imagine life is easier moving around with the US flag or a Sate registered boat. particularly if you exit and re-enter the US by boat .
Changing the flag at a later date should you choose to bring the boat back to Europe should be just as easy as getting a British flag now.
Should you at a later date choose to move back without the boat selling a US Flag boat in The US would be quite a bit easier than trying to sell a British flag boat in the US.
Are working in the US but not a permanent resident. Or are you a permeant resident.
I wonder why you don't want a US flag vessel. The US Flag is available to residents and state registration is quite easy. My boat is registered in Oregon not a problem. I would imagine life is easier moving around with the US flag or a Sate registered boat. particularly if you exit and re-enter the US by boat .
Changing the flag at a later date should you choose to bring the boat back to Europe should be just as easy as getting a British flag now.
Should you at a later date choose to move back without the boat selling a US Flag boat in The US would be quite a bit easier than trying to sell a British flag boat in the US.
