eBorders - suggested action

[Tranona]

Now you're making up your own stories .... I'll bet you're a ............... you really have no idea what makes the world go round have you? ... better call me a few more names then.

Well - suggest you look at the history books. One of the few real benefits of the EU is freedom of movement. Some of us are old enough to remember the days of restrictions on movement and currency that kept us well tied up in the UK. We therefore welcomed these restrictions being removed. Unfortunately opening our borders brought new problems - so rather than adopting policies to deal with those problems our wonderful politicians revert to placing controlling restrictions on US - as if we are the offenders.

There is no credible evidence that yachtsmen are responsible for any of the crimes, whether it be smuggling or immigration - so why the need for the restrictions and needless reporting? As I have pointed out earlier in this thread UKBA has QUADRUPLED the number of vessels boarded in the last 7 years, but other than throwing global figures about does not say what effect this has had on illegal activities - if any.

BTW they do not need to show that you are returning to the UK. As reports have shown they board vessels at random - who can blame them, they have no idea who you are and they have to justify using those hugely expensive ships.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

eborders will be a headache to all, but..... aren't the authorities damned if they do and damned if they don't?

I can see that a possible compromise will be worked out...for instance, confirmation/change/alteration of an intended voyage that were 'registered' prior to starting, would be made by text or another email on the day of arrival within a port.
With the speedy improvement in modern comm's it's going to be easy even for a computer/IT luddite like me to cooperate with requirements.

We wouldn't be in this mess if others hadn't made it something which has to be considered, but the sooner we all communicate with our MP's and those who make decisions or fight our corner the better for making it a workable system that suits all but the crim's.

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

What should we be telling our MPs that we want them to do?

 

[mezereon]

write to your MP

Completely agree with srm. We need to act now to make our voices heard while it still counts.
Its an easy process, using this web site http://www.writetothem.com/. It will even look-up your postcode to tell you who your MP is if you don't know.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Is any legislation likely to be passed before the next election?

Don't want to waste time writing to my MP who is very likely to be unemployed by June next year.

 

[jetwake]

I suggest that we all file a plan to sail to France every time we go out in our boats - I don't believe there is any penalty for failing to make your goal - and bury them in incompleted journeys.

I also fly aircraft and whenever I "book out" (you have to tell big mummy and daddy where you are going and where have come from), i always lie.

I admit that I dont actually file a plan to go abroad because its a true pain in the bum load of paperwork.

D

 

[Boz]

There is no credible evidence that yachtsmen are responsible for any of the crimes, whether it be smuggling or immigration - so why the need for the restrictions and needless reporting? As I have pointed out earlier in this thread UKBA has QUADRUPLED the number of vessels boarded in the last 7 years, but other than throwing global figures about does not say what effect this has had on illegal activities - if any.

BTW they do not need to show that you are returning to the UK. As reports have shown they board vessels at random - who can blame them, they have no idea who you are and they have to justify using those hugely expensive ships.

I've been googling for an hour now and can't find where all this stuff is promulgated .... give us a clue?
Regards
Boz

 

[Twister_Ken]

Maybe it's not there - after all, 'they' wouldn't want terrorists to find out about it.

 

[Koeketiene]

.. and isn't border control a good thing?

Border control is an illusion - short of turning the country into Stalag VII or GDR MkII it's not going to happen.
The country simply lacks the financial resources and the manpower to effectively enforce it.

Spoke to the Home Office people at SIBS and asked about the how and why?
They said they would be looking for patterns and anything out of the ordinary.
So, I asked - what if I don't file/register anything, how would you even know what I'm doing or where I'm going?
Blank look, followed by: Would you like some mints, Sir?'

Sir intends to treat this thing with the contempt it deserves and ignore it.

A couple of months ago a freighter was high-jacked in the Baltic. Interpol promptly notified the world and his wife. Yet the ship sailed with its AIS on - unchallenged - through the Dover Straits and down the Channel past Brest.

If they can't catch that, what are the chances of catching a yacht?

 

[Tranona]

I've been googling for an hour now and can't find where all this stuff is promulgated .... give us a clue?
Regards
Boz

Tut Tut

News pages of your December issue of YM for that specific information.

However, point made. It is not easy to find out what is going on. If I had the energy this would be a classic Freedom of Information issue.

However have just done a bit of research on the Home Office website. There have been well over 100 press releases (since February 2009) on "Strengthening our Borders" where UKBA pubilicises its succeses in catching people. Not surprisingly not one of them involves a leisure yacht - nor indeed any seizures from vessels at sea!

 

[Boz]

Tut Tut

News pages of your December issue of YM for that specific information.

However, point made. It is not easy to find out what is going on. If I had the energy this would be a classic Freedom of Information issue.

However have just done a bit of research on the Home Office website. There have been well over 100 press releases (since February 2009) on "Strengthening our Borders" where UKBA pubilicises its succeses in catching people. Not surprisingly not one of them involves a leisure yacht - nor indeed any seizures from vessels at sea!

Well here's one for a start:

"Among the 70 operations coordinated by the Portuguese-based unit was the seizure of 1.5 tonnes of cocaine on a yacht called Dances with Waves off the south-west coast of Ireland. The drugs are believed to have been destined for the British mainland in time for Christmas."
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/249964.html

Not by the UKBA....

I suspect that most seizures are taking place outside of British Territorial Waters by other agencies?

Regards

 

[Tranona]

Well here's one for a start:

"Among the 70 operations coordinated by the Portuguese-based unit was the seizure of 1.5 tonnes of cocaine on a yacht called Dances with Waves off the south-west coast of Ireland. The drugs are believed to have been destined for the British mainland in time for Christmas."
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/249964.html

Not by the UKBA....

I suspect that most seizures are taking place outside of British Territorial Waters by other agencies?

Regards

Yes, there are regular (but not frequent) incidents of a similar nature. They are almost always "intelligence led" that is the authorities know about them and choose their opportunity to seize the offenders.

I do not recall any cases resulting from a random check - does not mean there have not been any - just that other than press reports you have no way of knowing how effective these controls are.

 

[Madhatter]

I think there's a certain amount of hysteria about all this ... how often do you return from abroad in your boat?

Good question but how do the border patrols know you have just been out pottering about on the water and not returning from abroad ,and where is abroad seeing as we supposed to be in the EEC and boarders supposed not to exist .
And how many times do we get stopped by the police using a lie as a reason for stopping you . I sometimes work until 11 pm or later and get stopped many times ,in fact once arrested for failing to pass the roadside breathalyzer but hardly registered on the station one ( 1 glass of wine consumed)their excuse for stopping me " i straddled the white line" on a particularly awkward corner that even the police tend to straddle) but most importantly I wa aware of them following me and no way crossed the line ) but my point is I was arrested , dna sampled kept in the police station for 4 hours while they faffed about with paperwork etc I had no drinks offered or was shown no remorse at my uncomfortable position ( I had been at work since 7 that morning, not getting any younger ,have a heart conditiion, all of which they were aware of.
So do you think they (boarder patrols that is ) will give a f*** about your position while they mess about with their paperwork etc
NO !!
They will too busy justifying /protecting their jobs or massaging their ego's.

 

[Madhatter]

PS.
"Christ!" aren't we bogged down with enough bureaucracy in a nation of little Hitlers enforcing a lot of PC regulations and eating away at our so called "freedom"

 

[Searush]

If any one wants eyewitness accounts of UKBA people boarding leisure yachts, you could start by searching this site (if the search engine has ever been sorted). But searches of people who have never left UK waters are not unknown. And the style of the searches have been described as aggressive, with some participants armed - not something I would appreciate with wife & grandchildren aboard.

It's not always practical to "report in on line at your home port" - my home port is in Wales. There are no internet cafe's there & I live 110 miles away - not exactly handy. Mobile phone texts might be acceptable, but only if you have credit or a contract.

Too much stuff happens because "We must do something" - regardless of whether it is effective or even, like this, counterproductive. I await the arrest of the first criminal who fills in his form to declare that he is drug or people smuggling

TimBartlett may have exagerated slightly - but not much.

 

[timbartlett]

A couple of months ago a freighter was high-jacked in the Baltic. Interpol promptly notified the world and his wife. Yet the ship sailed with its AIS on - unchallenged - through the Dover Straits and down the Channel past Brest.

If they can't catch that, what are the chances of catching a yacht?

The key point about this is that it had been hijacked. So there were probably nasty people on board, with guns, and who didn't really care much about what the law said they could and couldn't do. Not the sort of thing any public servant with a cushy job and a nice fat pension building up wants to meet.

Now, a nice little yacht, on the other hand, probably with a middle-aged, middle-class couple on board who feel guilty if they've got an overdue library book -- that's a much better proposition: they can easily be terrorized, and in perfect safety.

 

[timbartlett]

What should we be telling our MPs that we want them to do?

Fire at least two thirds of the civil service.

 

[timbartlett]

Like I said .... hysteria .... thank you for proving my point.

No, not "hysteria": reality.

Income tax was famously introduced as a "temporary" measure to finance the Napoleonic wars. Has anyone here noticed the end of this "temporary" measure?

National Insurance was introduced to finance a National Health Service that would be "free at the point of delivery". Well we're still paying National Insurance... but now we also pay for prescriptions, glasses, and dentistry. The only bit we get free, at the moment, is the five minutes we spend with a doctor after spending three hours sitting in the waiting room for the appointment that we have to make two weeks before we get ill!

National Speed limit pre 1965 there was no national speed limit: UK roads were unrestricted except in towns and villages. 1973 saw a "temporary" reduction of national speed limit "because of the oil crisis". And there it stays. So now, almost every road in the country has "safety" cameras combined with arbitrary changes of speed limit designed to maximise revenue. Before long, there won't be any drivers left who remember the days when you could drive a vehicle designed to do 100+mph along a road that was designed for speeds of 100+mph, at 100+mph without anyone demanding money from you or accusing you of eating babies.
Just a handful of obvious examples of blatant government dishonest on a massive scale -- but there are many, many more, in which government has introduced petty legislation on the back of flimsy excuses, and has kept it in place as a means of either generating cash or suppressing freedom.
It got dramatically worse under the Mad Cow, and worse again under Tony B Liar, but I don't think it is their fault. Politicians are like kids sitting in the back seat with plastic steering wheels going "Brrrm Brrrm." Those in the driving seat are the faceless, unelected Sir Humphreys of the civil service.

 

[Madhatter]

No, not "hysteria": reality.

Income tax was famously introduced as a "temporary" measure to finance the Napoleonic wars. Has anyone here noticed the end of this "temporary" measure?

National Insurance was introduced to finance a National Health Service that would be "free at the point of delivery". Well we're still paying National Insurance... but now we also pay for prescriptions, glasses, and dentistry. The only bit we get free, at the moment, is the five minutes we spend with a doctor after spending three hours sitting in the waiting room for the appointment that we have to make two weeks before we get ill!

National Speed limit pre 1965 there was no national speed limit: UK roads were unrestricted except in towns and villages. 1973 saw a "temporary" reduction of national speed limit "because of the oil crisis". And there it stays. So now, almost every road in the country has "safety" cameras combined with arbitrary changes of speed limit designed to maximise revenue. Before long, there won't be any drivers left who remember the days when you could drive a vehicle designed to do 100+mph along a road that was designed for speeds of 100+mph, at 100+mph without anyone demanding money from you or accusing you of eating babies.
Just a handful of obvious examples of blatant government dishonest on a massive scale -- but there are many, many more, in which government has introduced petty legislation on the back of flimsy excuses, and has kept it in place as a means of either generating cash or suppressing freedom.
It got dramatically worse under the Mad Cow, and worse again under Tony B Liar, but I don't think it is their fault. Politicians are like kids sitting in the back seat with plastic steering wheels going "Brrrm Brrrm." Those in the driving seat are the faceless, unelected Sir Humphreys of the civil service.

BRAVO TIM ( glad I am not the only one who see's this )

 

[sailaboutvic]

Good question but how do the border patrols know you have just been out pottering about on the water and not returning from abroad ,and where is abroad....

well it won't be long before we all have to fill in log book to record every move we made , mark my word