eBorders - suggested action

[srm]

Some time back I emailed my MP expressing concerns about the proposed new reporting requirements for the sailing / boating community.

I have just had a letter back saying he is taking the matter up with the Home Office.

My suggestion is that we all contact MPs expressing our concerns, along with those that are being posted on the forum. If the points are made enough times to as many MPs as possible we just may be able to influence the Border Agency's thinking before it is published. Once the Agency makes a public stand it becomes politically and emotionally very difficult for them to change, so now is the time to act.

 

[Koeketiene]

I did - ours (Andrew Selous - Con - SW Beds) is all in favour of eBorders.
Being MP for a landlocked constituency over a hundred miles from the sea, I guess there aren't any votes in it.

 

[Amulet]

I suggest that we all file a plan to sail to France every time we go out in our boats - I don't believe there is any penalty for failing to make your goal - and bury them in incompleted journeys.

 

[srm]

I suggest that we all file a plan to sail to France every time we go out in our boats - I don't believe there is any penalty for failing to make your goal - and bury them in incompleted journeys.

Perhaps, depends on what rules are published. I am suggesting trying to influence the rules before they are published.

 

[sailorman]

I suggest that we all file a plan to sail to France every time we go out in our boats - I don't believe there is any penalty for failing to make your goal - and bury them in incompleted journeys.

One has already suggested that on previous posts

 

[srm]

I did - ours (Andrew Selous - Con - SW Beds) is all in favour of eBorders.
Being MP for a landlocked constituency over a hundred miles from the sea, I guess there aren't any votes in it.

One approach is to ask him to obtain an answer from the appropriate body to a specific question.

 

[Sandyman]

Well this is one person who won't be playing there stupid little games.

''in due course, owners and operators of pleasure craft will also need to provide passenger and crew information in advance under our e-Borders requirements for carriers and ports. We do not expect this to be before 2010. We are liaising with the Royal Yachting Association to ensure the general boating community is represented in the e-Borders process.''

 

[Tranona]

Whilst I admire those who think that MPs can make any difference, I would point out that all parties are broadly in favour of measures to control immigration and smuggling - even those who brought in the legislation that created the problem in the first place.

The reality is that the UKBA is now formed and is pursuing the current government policies. Part of this policy is control of movement, not just yachts and there is an enormous investment in "technology" to make it work. It is not going to go away now simply because no politician wants his/her name on the waste of money if it is cancelled. So they press on.

As a fortaste of what is to come look at the news item in YM this month. UKBA with their new found powers and nice new toys stopped 1900 vessels last year compared with 514 in 1999-2000. Undoubtedly much of this increase will be random checks on yachts. However, justification is that "over 15 tonnes of drugs and 830000 illicit cigarettes" have been seized. What they don't tell you is how much of this was from leisure yachts, nor more importantly how much was from random searches. Just throwing out global figures like that means YM can use a headline "Yachts caught smuggling in UK waters" with absolutely no evidence to support the statement.

In my view this whole business will collapse either because campaigners attack the figures or more likely when the government changes they will quietly bury the whole eborders idea, writing off the money spent and blaming it on their incompetent predecessors!

 

[Heckler]

Some time back I emailed my MP expressing concerns about the proposed new reporting requirements for the sailing / boating community.

I have just had a letter back saying he is taking the matter up with the Home Office.

My suggestion is that we all contact MPs expressing our concerns, along with those that are being posted on the forum. If the points are made enough times to as many MPs as possible we just may be able to influence the Border Agency's thinking before it is published. Once the Agency makes a public stand it becomes politically and emotionally very difficult for them to change, so now is the time to act.

Can some one write the appropriate words so that we can copy and post please? As in the technical difficulties.
Stu

 

[srm]

Can some one write the appropriate words so that we can copy and post please? As in the technical difficulties.
Stu

Probably better if you use your own words but here are some ideas:

There are strong arguments for border controls that we are not contesting - our concern is that a sledgehammer will be used on the leisure sector without obtaining any significant benefit to the security of the country.

Eborder control undoubtedly works in the public transport sector where the operators have to declare their passenger lists in advance. However, there is a big 'grey area' in the leisure sector that relies on self declaration. How can eborders be effective when it relies on those with criminal intent declaring that they are entering or leaving the country by private aircraft or boats?

Requiring self declaration is simply going to cause inconvenience to legitimate users of private vessels while allowing free passage to those who do not declare themselves.

There is the practical question of how leisure boat operators are going to be able to notify the Border Agency via internet when many boats do not have ready access to this technology and even mobile phone coverage (being designed for land use) is very patchy around much of the UK coast line and none existent on any network in some coastal areas.

How will eborders effectively monitor the open border between the UK and the Republic of Ireland? Will there be travel controls within "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"?

No doubt many other points that I have missed.

 

[LadyInBed]

I did - ours (Andrew Selous - Con - SW Beds) is all in favour of eBorders.

From what I have seen of SW Beds, it's a bit like shutting the gate after . . . . !

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

I think there's a certain amount of hysteria about all this ... how often do you return from abroad in your boat?

 

[Chris_Robb]

I think there's a certain amount of hysteria about all this ... how often do you return from abroad in your boat?

Histerical? Moi? About 100% of the time. Not sure what you were trying to say!

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

What I really meant was .... how often are you likely to be bothered by Border Agency types wanting to come aboard .. and isn't border control a good thing?

 

[Skylark]

I suspect that I'm with the majority in that I loosely know it's a bad idea and that if at all, now is the time to lobby to influence changes to the proposed legislation. However, I'm too lazy to do my homework, look back into RYA publications etc to get to grips with the detail.

As Stu has already asked, if someone who has a passion on the subject greater than mine could pen a focused, logical, rational argument I would happily cut & paste into a letter to my local MP. I don't think it matters if there's a common text; there are examples where the quantity of template letters have had influence.

Any takers?

 

[timbartlett]

I think there's a certain amount of hysteria about all this ... how often do you return from abroad in your boat?

How many times are you happy to pay a "penalty charge", or a fine?
How many fingers are you prepared to have shoved up your back passage?
How long would you be happy to spend in custody "helping with enquiries"?
How many times are you willing to accidentally "bump into a door" or "fall downstairs"?
How many times do you think you could survive being shot by some half-trained, trigger-happy border guard with an automatic weapon and an unshakeable belief in his own infallibility?

.. and isn't border control a good thing?

No. It's window dressing, put in place by civil servants who see the recession as an opportunity to increase their stranglehold on the rest of the population, and supported by politicians who see it as a votewinner amongst an electorate that is becoming increasingly xenophobic.

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

Like I said .... hysteria .... thank you for proving my point.

 

[Chris_Robb]

What I really meant was .... how often are you likely to be bothered by Border Agency types wanting to come aboard .. and isn't border control a good thing?

If you don't file your return - or explain why you had to change - or put back to France because of the weather - you will end up with a CRIMINAL record. So you cannot just ignore it - I wish we could.

And yes - Border control is a good thing - but its no use getting it done by self declaration - will the badies do it? NO - so its a waste of Fucking money and time!

 

[Chris_Robb]

Like I said .... hysteria .... thank you for proving my point.

Not at all - it appears that you are the kind of laise faire individual who can't be bothered, so will allow this creeping errosion of liberties, till we truly have "1984" in place - I bet you will then be a bureaucratic 4 legged pig.

How many laws were inacted for one reason, and when it comes to use, the original purpose was quietly forgotten, and the laws used not as were first intended.

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

Now you're making up your own stories .... I'll bet you're a ............... you really have no idea what makes the world go round have you? ... better call me a few more names then.