Eberspacher & Red Diesel

TRH

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Just been looking through the Eberspacher Q&A I did not Know this.Maybe others would find it an intresting read??
Q7: Will my Eberspacher heater run on red diesel and how often will it need servicing?

Answer:
"Our heater products are designed to run on fuel to specification BS EN 590 as stated in the Technical book that accompanies all heaters."

It is commonly thought that red diesel is road diesel with a red dye in it….. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. There are two types of red diesel available, one is Gas Oil with red dye, and the other is Low Sulphur Gas Oil (City Gas Oil) with a red dye. The latter meets BS EN 590 and has the same specification as road diesel.

We have contacted a couple of Fuel Suppliers to ascertain "what exactly is it in the fuel that makes it different”.

The main differences between "Gas Oil (non BS EN 590)" and Low Sulphur Gas Oil (to BS EN 590), is the former has a lower 'Cetane rating' 46 against 52, higher sulphur %Wt 0.2 against 0.005, higher Flash point 82 against 67 and Carbon residue, on 10% distillation residue, %Wt .12 against <0.001.

The fuel commonly found on the canal system is unfortunately "Gas Oil". The other "Red diesel" available is called "City Gas Oil" (ultra low sulphur gas oil) (Linton Fuel Oil Ltd Stock code 103). This meets BS EN 590 and apparently costs the marina only 1.5 pence more per litre. Our contact was quoted saying "why anyone chooses to buy normal gas oil, I don’t know!" another supplier was challenged to why it was not always offered he said "surprisingly no one asks for it but it is readily available."

We have found boat owners using the better quality fuel to have a longer period between servicing, therefore what is needed are people like you demanding this far superior fuel. I am sure you would be happy to pay a few pence more for better fuel.

In answer to your servicing questions our heaters have a service interval of approximately 2000 hrs, this can be adversely affected by the use of Gas Oil (non BS EN 590), bacterial or water contamination. We have many customers who have taken onboard the advice we have given in the past regarding additives and now have far longer service intervals. These additives are ‘Fuel Set’ & ‘Fultron’ and are available from all good chandlers and stockists.
 
If it is/has been, then it shouldnt be a problem much longer, most boats will have a tank full of nice clean road fuel!
 
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Just been looking through the Eberspacher Q&A I did not Know this.Maybe others would find it an intresting read??
Q7: Will my Eberspacher heater run on red diesel and how often will it need servicing?

Answer:
"Our heater products are designed to run on fuel to specification BS EN 590 as stated in the Technical book that accompanies all heaters."

It is commonly thought that red diesel is road diesel with a red dye in it….. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. There are two types of red diesel available, one is Gas Oil with red dye, and the other is Low Sulphur Gas Oil (City Gas Oil) with a red dye. The latter meets BS EN 590 and has the same specification as road diesel.

We have contacted a couple of Fuel Suppliers to ascertain "what exactly is it in the fuel that makes it different”.

The main differences between "Gas Oil (non BS EN 590)" and Low Sulphur Gas Oil (to BS EN 590), is the former has a lower 'Cetane rating' 46 against 52, higher sulphur %Wt 0.2 against 0.005, higher Flash point 82 against 67 and Carbon residue, on 10% distillation residue, %Wt .12 against <0.001.

The fuel commonly found on the canal system is unfortunately "Gas Oil". The other "Red diesel" available is called "City Gas Oil" (ultra low sulphur gas oil) (Linton Fuel Oil Ltd Stock code 103). This meets BS EN 590 and apparently costs the marina only 1.5 pence more per litre. Our contact was quoted saying "why anyone chooses to buy normal gas oil, I don’t know!" another supplier was challenged to why it was not always offered he said "surprisingly no one asks for it but it is readily available."

We have found boat owners using the better quality fuel to have a longer period between servicing, therefore what is needed are people like you demanding this far superior fuel. I am sure you would be happy to pay a few pence more for better fuel.

In answer to your servicing questions our heaters have a service interval of approximately 2000 hrs, this can be adversely affected by the use of Gas Oil (non BS EN 590), bacterial or water contamination. We have many customers who have taken onboard the advice we have given in the past regarding additives and now have far longer service intervals. These additives are ‘Fuel Set’ & ‘Fultron’ and are available from all good chandlers and stockists.

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I am not going to repeat my many posts on this ... but suggest you do a search - or someone else may link for you.

Just to say that as a Fuel Quality Lab and Inspection Co. regularly blending and inspecting such fuels along with all the others ... I have made it plain again and again what Red Diesel is.

OK onto the point that you make that 50ppm EN-590 Gas-oil ... (Gas Oil IS the correct name ....) is only one grade in the whole EN-590 range .... Red has and always was the standard at 0.2% Sulphur for good reason - it caters for ALL engines agricultural, site and marine.
The special uses such as Ebers ... that is outside of a fuel suppliers market specs - as Eber design and spec their systems to what they deem - and they do say in their blurb about the class of fuel to use.

I don't disagree with your post and details within - but feel you are taking further than it really needs or warrants.

As to additives .... they can quote whatever additives they like - the truth of the matter is that as you reduce sulphur - the amount of additives INCREASES ......... I know - I put tons of additives in each month to various gas-oils (diesel to you) .... French ... UK .... German ..... various markets ... even USA .... destined markets.

FYI - 0.2% Sulphur Gas Oil usually only requires CFPP additive to create winter grade. It's Cetane is usually about 49 .... etc. etc.

Wish I hadn't read this thread now !! /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
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Hi Don't shoot the MESSENGER bad form.

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Maybe ... but the subject of Red Diesel tends to get a bit tired and worn out after so many years of explaining about it and why ...
No disrespect to you ...
 
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If you really want to give your Eber a treat, fit a small tank just for the heater and run it on paraffin.

It burns very slightly cooler but with much less soot.

Jim

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Or dare I say it .... do as many other boaters do and carry a can of ULSD Road stuff ... the amount you use will not hurt the pocket much ... with seperate supply tank of course to the eber as Jim has ... a very nice stainless one as well ....
 
I have used the old fashioned 35sec / Heavy gas oil for my central heating for over 25 years (used to be cheaper than Kerosene) it also went straight into all of the boats I have ever had, almost all have had Eberspacher and I can’t say I have ever had any major problems... Usual maintenance obviously observed. (Engines never complained either).

I just wonder how much of the blurb is marketing or blame mitigation.

Regards... Peter
 
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I have made it plain again and again what Red Diesel is.

[/ QUOTE ]Could you point me to one of those threads, please?
 
Well thats a good Germanic answer from Eberspacher. Reminds me of the BMW answer when their engines were failing left, right and centre - "its you British using the wrong fuel"

Maybe Eberspacher should get their act together and produce a heater thats happy to work on the cheaper fuel that people use.
 
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I have made it plain again and again what Red Diesel is.

[/ QUOTE ]Could you point me to one of those threads, please?

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I hate the search engine here ... I can never remember how to do it via Google ... so sorry ... you'll have to do it yersel !! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Many times over the years the question of Red has been raised .... lubrication quality's, differences with ULSD and use in marine engines etc. etc. I have usually risen to give the Fuel Labs answer ...

One point I make now and again depending on the "founding post" creating a thread or why ... I do try to illustrate some peoples misunderstanding of the Red vs ULSD issue.

Let's give an example now .... Is anyone here not happy to buy FOD49 in France .... it looks like plain diesel, works like plain diesel ... it's sold to you as diesel .... FOD49 - the classification is short for : Fuel Oil Domestique 49 cetane.

It is bog standard 0.2% Sulphur stock with addition to spec ..................

So where is the 50ppm ULSD now ?

What is everyone going to say when the 35ppm spec kicks in soon ? Funny how most 50ppm stock is near 35 already ...

/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
I have been trying to get a good technical answer to the question for years and haven't found anything that quite answers it on the internet, or here, from you or anyone else, so my ears pricked up when you said that you keep telling everyone...I thought I'd missed it. I can't find it on the search engine here - maybe the thread or post was removed if it had the S**T**N word therein.

If you do find time to write up a good technical description of the differences in the various fuels with enough information to allow people to do further research if they want, I'm sure lots of people here would be interested. Many of us like to know a bit about the things we use, for interest if for no other reason.
 
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I have been trying to get a good technical answer to the question for years and haven't found anything that quite answers it on the internet, or here, from you or anyone else, so my ears pricked up when you said that you keep telling everyone...I thought I'd missed it. I can't find it on the search engine here - maybe the thread or post was removed if it had the S**T**N word therein.

If you do find time to write up a good technical description of the differences in the various fuels with enough information to allow people to do further research if they want, I'm sure lots of people here would be interested. Many of us like to know a bit about the things we use, for interest if for no other reason.

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Ok ... I will dig out the data and specs ... but as I said in a thread about a month ago - some of it is not quoteable as is ... but let me check out ...
 
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