Eberspacher or not...?

[locostmike]

Hi Folks,
I have an Eberspacher D5WSC heater fitted that has died. I've read about their reliability and how to maintain them etc but my question is:
If I'm on a limited budget do I buy a replacement unit, especially as all the ancillary pipework etc is still in place or go down a different route/brand of heater?
Just looking for your collective broad experiince.

Thanks

Mike

 

[john_morris_uk]

They usually die because they get clogged up.

New gauze and gasket and a strip down and clean up the insides?

Top tip is to run them on paraffin now and again as it really cleans up the insides.

Nothing wrong with the make and manufacturer but they get a bad press because people use old second hand ones and don't install them very well. They then wonder why they're unreliable!

 

[DownWest]

Nothing wrong with the make and manufacturer but they get a bad press because people use old second hand ones and don't install them very well. They then wonder why they're unreliable!

My experience is limited to a new one in a new boat. Quit after a few hours running while we were in Sevilla. Temps were negative, so a bit of bodging with screwdrivers to jamb relays got it running and kept us comfortable. To be fair, it wasn't the only problem, one of the engines kept blowing the whistle if one tried a decent cruising speed and the boat, a Coronet 32, was taken back by the company. We seem to have got a Friday afternoon job, but not what I would have expected from a respected company.

 

[jdc]

I agree with the other posters that if you can fix your existing Eberspacher yourself, or get some one to do it for you that will be much the best and cheapest solution. And I completely endorse the comment that the problem is usually poor installation: it was the case on my new (and high quality) boat where the Ebberspacher flooded due to the combustion air intake being in the bilge - hardly Eberspacher's fault. However I found Eberspacher really extraordinarily unhelpful when I tried to purchase a new unit but not all the rest of the kit, so much so that I bought a Mikuni unit instead. It came with the tiny number of adapters needed to make it a retrofit into an Eberspacher installation and I've never regretted that choice. I also much prefer the Mikuni's controller: it's just got on/off and temperature controls, none of the umpteen cryptic 'temperature on alternate leap years' settings.

My defunct Eberspacher was an 'airtronic' D5 whereas yours is a water one so the Mikuni MY30 I bought won't suit you, so I suggest you contact Mikuni UK and ask their advice (maybe the MX60 is right for you?).

 

[GrahamM376]

Nothing wrong with the make and manufacturer but they get a bad press because people use old second hand ones and don't install them very well. They then wonder why they're unreliable!

Agree with those sentiments in many cases. Our D3LC is now around 15 years old and has never been stripped. I had to replace the glow plug some years ago and also had a starting problem caused by low voltage due to corroded contacts on one of the loom plug/sockets. It's worth having a programmer which will display and allow you to cancel any fault codes.
Repairs obviously cheaper if you take it to one of the many truck auto electrician dealers rather than have someone visit the boat.

 

[Jock89]

Just looking for your collective broad experience.
Thanks
Mike

Mike I'd stick with your existing unit. It's well worth servicing as a new unit will cost A LOT & they all suffer from the same problems.
My D4 is now about 9 years old & I've had to take it out twice in previous years (a real PIA!) due to the burner or gauze getting blocked up with carbon.
A 'service' in even a truck garage still costs £50+ per hour & you'll never get a Bill for just the 1 hour.! It's well worth getting intimately acquainted with your unit as you'll save a lot on labour charges.
My top tip is to never let the unit tick over too slowly, as that's when the fuel doesn't burn off properly & starts to carbon-up the burner or gauze. I now pay more attention to the fuel pump & don't let it pump at less than 3 per second.
Jock

 

[Heckler]

They usually die because they get clogged up.

New gauze and gasket and a strip down and clean up the insides?

Top tip is to run them on paraffin now and again as it really cleans up the insides.

Nothing wrong with the make and manufacturer but they get a bad press because people use old second hand ones and don't install them very well. They then wonder why they're unreliable!

Good advice as usual.
The paraffin trick, I found that on the USA Espar site and did a PBO article using that info about paraffin, or kerosene as they call it. There was a guy working for Eber Uk at the time, wasnt happy with my advice. He really wasnt happy, until I produced the link to the Espar site and a copy of the service advice. I actually ran my D3LC through that winter on 28sec heating oil, as nearly paraffin as dammit. I was buying it from a local rural petrol station out of his pump at about 35p a litre. It had been showing signs of coking up, I had scraped the gauze burner clean to get it to fire up. Since then, it must be 5 years ago? not a hunt if trouble, I actually fired it up last week here in Gib, it was a tad cool in the evening!
Stu

 

[Yngmar]

My boat came with an old D5LC, which wasn't working. A replacement unit would've been £2k or more, so I've learnt how to fix it and service it, and got it running with a lot of fiddling (brilliant DIY info here) and £300 in parts. It's been brilliant ever since, and you can also use it in summer for unheated ventilation (although at risk of some wear to the rather expensive blower motor). If it were to break again (knock on wood), and beyond repairing for a few hundred quid, I wouldn't get another Eber though - units and parts are ridiculously expensive, and the fact that you cannot disassemble the burn chamber for cleaning really annoys me. I'd probably fit a Planar instead.

Yours is a hydronic system I see, so you have plumbing instead of ducting, but otherwise much the same applies. Get on the website I've linked, figure out what's wrong with it and see if you can get it running. If you need more than £500 or so in parts, forget it and buy a Planar that fits your existing pipework.

I ran mine on Paraffin (Kerosene) for a bit, but didn't get the impression it made any difference. Runs just fine on red diesel from the fuel pontoon.

 

[Hadenough]

I ran mine on Paraffin (Kerosene) for a bit, but didn't get the impression it made any difference. Runs just fine on red diesel from the fuel pontoon.

Agree, makes no difference.

 

[Hadenough]

Prompted me to check, 4750 hours since new over 5 years ago, (we livaboard 365 in Britain). Self installed, run on red through a proper filter, never missed a beat (and if it does now I'm blaming you lot). Guess the answer is to use it. D4 by the way.

 

[NormanS]

Agree, makes no difference.

How on Earth do you know?

 

[Heckler]

How on Earth do you know?

Indeed, I took a D2 apart, photographed the carbon, put it back together, ran it on paraffin for a couple of hours, stripped it again and photographed the lack of carbon!
Stu

 

[Sjk1000]

We have a D3LC but hardly use it. If we're anchoring or on a mooring buoy here in the UK it's usually warm enough not to bother with heating at all. If we're in a marina or on a pontoon with power, the price of diesel means that it's the same cost as running a £20 1-2kW fan heater from B&Q.
I guess my question would be, do you really need one? If you're on the move a lot, or have no shore power access, and it's cold, then it makes some sense, but I've known people in marinas here spend 1000s fitting them when they rarely travel further than the other side of the Solent on a nice day.

 

[vyv_cox]

I ran mine on Paraffin (Kerosene) for a bit, but didn't get the impression it made any difference. Runs just fine on red diesel from the fuel pontoon.

The composition of red diesel has changed quite a lot in the last ten years or so. It used to be the calorific value was lower than that of road diesel, presumably because it contained somewhat different hydrocarbons, and its sulphur content remained high when road diesel's went to the ultra low levels that we have today. Today that is no longer the case: the composition is exactly the same as road fuel plus some red marker dye. My own Eberspacher D3L has never run on red diesel, as it has not been in UK since I installed it. That was in 1999, since when it has never been touched and runs perfectly. Not had a lot of use in the Med but prior to that was used a lot.

 

[maby]

We have a D3LC but hardly use it. If we're anchoring or on a mooring buoy here in the UK it's usually warm enough not to bother with heating at all. If we're in a marina or on a pontoon with power, the price of diesel means that it's the same cost as running a £20 1-2kW fan heater from B&Q.
I guess my question would be, do you really need one? If you're on the move a lot, or have no shore power access, and it's cold, then it makes some sense, but I've known people in marinas here spend 1000s fitting them when they rarely travel further than the other side of the Solent on a nice day.

I think it depends on the size of your boat, doesn't it? We have a couple of fan heaters and a 4kw(ish) Eberspacher. The boat has 16A wiring - just enough to run the two fan heaters on full power provided there is no other drain - but I have tripped out the contact breakers with both running together with the hot water, battery chargers and a couple of laptops. I also overheated the shorepower socket, fusing the pins together and forcing me to spend a painful couple of hours cutting the old plug out before replacing the lot.

As a result, I'm reluctant to run the heaters on more than half power - and 2kw is not enough to keep the boat adequately warm in the depths of winter - that requires the grunt of a decent size diesel heater.

 

[Sjk1000]

I think it depends on the size of your boat, doesn't it?

Yes, you're absolutely right. We have a 36ft Westerly. Most evenings, even in winter, we have to turn the fan heater down because it's too warm, at which point the heat disappears swiftly through every surface. We move it into the aft cabin about 10mins before we go to bed. We know other liveaboards that have much bigger boats where a diesel heater is appropriate, and also those with smaller boats on which a small fan heater is the better option.

 

[NormanS]

The composition of red diesel has changed quite a lot in the last ten years or so. It used to be the calorific value was lower than that of road diesel, presumably because it contained somewhat different hydrocarbons, and its sulphur content remained high when road diesel's went to the ultra low levels that we have today. Today that is no longer the case: the composition is exactly the same as road fuel plus some red marker dye. My own Eberspacher D3L has never run on red diesel, as it has not been in UK since I installed it. That was in 1999, since when it has never been touched and runs perfectly. Not had a lot of use in the Med but prior to that was used a lot.

Not in every case. The red diesel that my supplier provides is still high sulfur, since they supply the fuel for many of CalMac's West Coast ferries. While it's probably good for the engine, it causes problems with the Eber, and consequently I use road diesel for it from a separate tank. Mine gets a LOT of use.