dual purpose engine start/domestic batteries

Whitelighter said:
Right, given up trying to buy in Spain.
I can get them but they is limited supply and take a long time to order.

I assume these would be suitable
https://www.tayna.co.uk/Numax-CXV31MF-P3694.html

U.K. Supplier ships direct from Belgium in 3 days for the cost of one battery
Just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed anything on the spec that would make them unsuitable
Click to expand...
They should last a good few years. I've used NUMAX before, not the best quality in the market but considering the price perfect for your needs and a very good compromise as you can still install a decent size bank withour ermmm.... breaking the bank. :-)
 
The setup on your boat seems similar to mine,
One bank for engine (and thruster and winches)
One bank for domestic
One (small) bank for the genny’s

The two first on mine are 24V , on yours are 12V, but that’s is not really important

Your engine bank is more than powerfull enough for starting the engine’s,
So no need to do much calcs / look at CCA, etc…
But headroom of battery power is good when using the thruster,
Or when battery’s get worn. (like now is the case I believe)

For testing the battery’s, you can borrow a tester (NOT a standard volt meter, that is of no use for this)
Or buy one (I check my battery’s before and after every season)
But as has been said, you need to isolate each battery (at least one side) before you can measure its condition.

Now the important thing,
As has been said, bad battery’s in the bank will drain the others,

Even so if you have different brand / capacity battery’s in the bank,
They might have different internal resistance / drain the others, so sacrifice the capacity or lifetime of the batery bank

So my advice would be: replace all your battery’s by new, all the same model
That’s what I did already two times in 6 seasons, we use the boat a lot overnight on anker.
Now I have more control systems, to avoid over-discharging, So lifetime should increase.

Actually in both occasions I bought the battery’s in UK !
From barden-uk.com
They had the best price and availability
Yes, battery’s were shipped from UK, to Belgium, to SOF

I just searched the original battery’s, and replaced them with exactly the same,
These are: Deep cycle, sealed, lead battery’s,
Originally: Delphi BE105 (105Ahj)
But now this make has been taken over by Varta,
Varta model is: LFS105
Canados must have done some investigation to choose these,
And they fit perfectly in the bay, same for the cabling

In 2011 I paid 89 euro for such a battery , (that was a price for 28 pcs)

In my business I can get Victron Gel battery’s at reseller discount,
But even than they are still more expensive than these lead battery’s,
And they also die after a while,
We installed lots of these in broadcasting Van’s, because it is written in the tender,
But I have absolutely no reason to have more expensive battery’s on the boat


On my boat I have a “backup” switch, that connects the two banks in parallel,
Its like a permanently installed jumper cables, with a on/off switch,
and this was usefull many times so far,
actually last season this switch was permanently “on”
to increase the running on battery time at anker.
I have a automatice system to give alarm, or switch the genny “on” when battery’s are at 60% capacity
Genny has a separate battery, so there is little risc in doing this.
 
Whitelighter said:
Right, given up trying to buy in Spain.
I can get them but they is limited supply and take a long time to order.

I assume these would be suitable
https://www.tayna.co.uk/Numax-CXV31MF-P3694.html

U.K. Supplier ships direct from Belgium in 3 days for the cost of one battery
Just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed anything on the spec that would make them unsuitable
Click to expand...

just seen this post,
model looks suiteable (seems similar to what I have)
but as I have written above, I would at least replace all batt. from one bank,
but prefereably from both banks
 
Whitelighter said:
Right, given up trying to buy in Spain.
I can get them but they is limited supply and take a long time to order.

I assume these would be suitable
https://www.tayna.co.uk/Numax-CXV31MF-P3694.html

U.K. Supplier ships direct from Belgium in 3 days for the cost of one battery
Just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed anything on the spec that would make them unsuitable
Click to expand...

That's a widely available battery, badged under many different brands. It should be fine for starting. If you also plan to replace the domestic batteries, you can get deep cycle batteries for similar price which will work better and last longer, but may not be as suitable for back-up starting as they have much lower, in fact unspecified, CCA.

I've noticed a big improvement in domestic capacity by replacing dual purpose with deep cycle.
 
We get through batteries - like Bart about 3 seasons on each set.
The initial ones supplied by Princess were just standard truck batteries.
I replaced them with some from Barden - thinking that I was getting something a bit better than average.
In fact they were just like all the others and didn't last very long.

There are two schools of thought:-
1 - Buy expensive batteries and look after them - and maybe get 5 or 6 years use.
2 - Buy cheap ones that won't last more that (say) 3 years.
We can mistreat batteries - mainly by running them too far/low before a recharge.
My theory is that I can ?ugger up an expensive set as easily as I can a cheap set.
So I tend to buy cheap ones.

In the past, I've used a local Spanish supplier who supplied batteries to a similar spec as the Barden ones.
The Spanish supplier's website is http://www.pueyoserviauto.com/
Google Maps link - here - https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...9efa1558e7!8m2!3d40.6746571!4d0.5832618?hl=en
For batteries like yours, his price has been about 130 to 140 euros each.

This season, we've tried an experiment and replaced the whole of our house set to cheap ones like the ones in your link.
We bought them off an Ebay company in the UK at about £65 each.
When we installed them, they were very noticeably lighter than the old ones that we were removing.
Everything is working but we haven't put them really to test yet.
So, "the jury is still out".
If I get three seasons, they will have saved me (almost double) against the batteries that I have been using.
All I'm looking for is to get a set of house batteries to last safely through the night - at anchor, we always run the generator for breakfast and just before we go to bed.
Engine start batteries - I only have 4 so I would probably spend a little more and buy locally - that what I've done to date but if these cheap ones that I now have on the house bank, I could be tempted.

When selecting batteries, apart from capacity, you must make sure that the connections/orientations will fit your existing layout.
No point saving a few quid on the batteries to find that you have to rewire the whole battery bank.
The terminals are on the long side of the battery - check that the plus and minus terminals are the same ends as the existing ones.
Also check that the type of connector matches your wiring system.
Oh yes - check the physical dimensions - do they actually fit in the battery box?

Jez, Do you really need to replace them right now.
Can you manage on the old set for the rest of this season.
Thats what we did last summer.
This season, your boat will be (mostly) in the marina.
Then a new set next year should last longer (by another season)
Maybe remove any dud ones and run off a reduced set for the rest of the season.
We can check which ones are dud later when I get back to SC.
Another point.
I make a BIG thing of making sure that ALL my DC systems are switched off when we leave the boat.
I know that loads of people don't and when/if the shore supply is cut, their boats simply run the batteries flat.
There have been incidents where boats have been hit by lightening and the owners say that the strike killed their batteries.
I bet that most of these cases, the strike didn't actually kill the batteries - more like the strike killed the charger and the boat ran the batteries down.

Finally, you must arrange some kind of ventilation.
Not only can you get lethal fumes within the boat but you will also corrode other equipment in the same airspace if the batteries aren't properly vented.
 
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The answer to your 'do I have to change them' depends.
I actually have revised my thoughts on the way the boat is wired.

I think there are three batteries for the port engine, three for starboard and 6 in two banks of three for services.
I have no less than three ways of linking the whole lot together.

I am one battery down in the starboard set and I think this is on the engine set - which would explain why the thing won't start. It was this set that ran dry so are likely toast. The port set have 5 of the calcium sealed batteries and 1 identical to the starboard set.

Using your battery tester if I can ascertain that I have in that lot 3 strong batteries then I can move these all to an engine start bank - giving me guaranteed start on one donkey. The next three best batteries can then be moved to the other engine bank. This will leave me with 5 probably knackered batteries on the services bank BUT 80% of the time the boat is on shore power. 10% the boat is running and at anchor I can either run the genset of just reduce 12v draw to as little as possible - probably the fridges.

So assumin I can get 3 good (which I think I have identified) and 3 ok batteries out of my set of 11 then you are right, no need to change this season and I'll make it a winter mx task.
 
Whitelighter said:
The answer to your 'do I have to change them' depends.
I actually have revised my thoughts on the way the boat is wired.

I think there are three batteries for the port engine, three for starboard and 6 in two banks of three for services.
I have no less than three ways of linking the whole lot together.

I am one battery down in the starboard set and I think this is on the engine set - which would explain why the thing won't start. It was this set that ran dry so are likely toast. The port set have 5 of the calcium sealed batteries and 1 identical to the starboard set.

Using your battery tester if I can ascertain that I have in that lot 3 strong batteries then I can move these all to an engine start bank - giving me guaranteed start on one donkey. The next three best batteries can then be moved to the other engine bank. This will leave me with 5 probably knackered batteries on the services bank BUT 80% of the time the boat is on shore power. 10% the boat is running and at anchor I can either run the genset of just reduce 12v draw to as little as possible - probably the fridges.

So assumin I can get 3 good (which I think I have identified) and 3 ok batteries out of my set of 11 then you are right, no need to change this season and I'll make it a winter mx task.
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OK
We will have visitors with us until mid day on Friday the 26th.
Maybe you can manage until then.
We probably won't do the flotilla run to Vinaros - our visitors only have two and a half days to check Sant Carles out - we will probably get the toys out and play in the lagoon.
 
Jez

I'm thinking of changing my service/starboard engine battery bank soon, I have had a pair of Platinum Xtreme Part No. 627 which have lasted me for well over 5 years now, they are 140 AH (20h) with CCA 850A (SAE).

There is a standard and AGM version available now, Yuasa collected from UK supplier at:

627 Standard 120Ah 675A CCA rating at £77.50+vat
627 AGM 140Ah 815A CCA rating at £117.50+vat

I have a single battery for port engine and a separate for bow thruster (the latter I bought in SCM from Agusti at the Pueyo-Serviauto as Mike mentioned - I have their email if you need it)

I was thinking of trying AGM this time to get the required CCA, albeit not needed for service but needed for stb engine.

Let me know before you buy as we may be able to do a deal/combined delivery... I am in no rush next out 14 Sep.
 
I like the spec on these Varta batteries at £164.50 including VAT:

Varta%20M9%20Battery.jpg
 
I think these are the ones that I've put into my house bank earlier this year.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-125ah...fe-/301635413598?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
John you will remember that you transported them out for me - I still owe you that favour.

I'm hoping to get the same that NickH is on his deep cycle batteries.

This is all a bit of an experiment - currently, they are working fine - if they last, it will be great.
 
Hurricane said:
I think these are the ones that I've put into my house bank earlier this year.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-125ah...fe-/301635413598?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
John you will remember that you transported them out for me - I still owe you that favour.

I'm hoping to get the same that NickH is on his deep cycle batteries.

This is all a bit of an experiment - currently, they are working fine - if they last, it will be great.
Click to expand...

Wow they're cheap as chips Mike any idea what the CCA is for the 125AH? Wrong terminal configuration for me but that's easily sorted....
 
John100156 said:
Wow they're cheap as chips Mike any idea what the CCA is for the 125AH? Wrong terminal configuration for me but that's easily sorted....
Click to expand...

I didn't check the CCA - because I'm trying them out as house/service batteries.
Check the same supplier - IIRC there are different terminal layouts - also different sizes.
EDIT - note their location!!!

Be warned though - as I said above they are way lighter than the standard ones - must have far less lead.
But, if they do the job that they are currently (excuse the pun) doing for at least 3 seasons, I think I will stick with them.

As far as engine start batteries are concerned, at the end of our last set, they "kind of" worked right to the end.
So, maybe leisure batteries would work on the engines as well.
A good friend of ours made me a jumper lead (he knows who he is) so we can (manually) jump start our engine bank from the house/service bank.

Also, I know a cheap way to get them out to SC - be cheeky - ask a friend :D:D
 
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Tested my starboard bank this morning with a meter.

Barely 7v across each battery. I guess regardless of any other issues those 6 batteries are knackered.
Port bank showing 12.8v on their own and 13.6v when under charge, so I think those are ok,

I'm inclined to order 6 of the Numax 110ah 1000cca batteries I linked to. £63 each plus £95 3 day delivery to the marina seems like a deal to me.

Just in the lagoon so if anyone thinks I'm making a horrible mistake shout loudly sometime in the next hour ;)
 
Whitelighter said:
Tested my starboard bank this morning with a meter.

Barely 7v across each battery. I guess regardless of any other issues those 6 batteries are knackered.
Port bank showing 12.8v on their own and 13.6v when under charge, so I think those are ok,

I'm inclined to order 6 of the Numax 110ah 1000cca batteries I linked to. £63 each plus £95 3 day delivery to the marina seems like a deal to me.

Just in the lagoon so if anyone thinks I'm making a horrible mistake shout loudly sometime in the next hour ;)
Click to expand...

I presume that you didn't disconnect the batteries so it still could be one (or more) batteries dragging the rest down.
Anyway, if you are going to order new ones, have you made sure that they will fit (both terminal orientation and physical size).
Prices do seem good though.
 
Hurricane said:
I presume that you didn't disconnect the batteries so it still could be one (or more) batteries dragging the rest down.
Anyway, if you are going to order new ones, have you made sure that they will fit (both terminal orientation and physical size).
Prices do seem good though.
Click to expand...

Yep size is good but more importantly they have the secondary screw terminals in addition to the primary clamp in type.
No u didn't disconnect them and they all cafe the same value - good point.

They all ran dry so for £450 ish I'm tempted just to replace the lot
 
Whitelighter said:
Here is the status of the currebt panel
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Well that looks familiar. Ferretti electrical panels haven't changed much over the years. In the photo, the battery charger control display shows 0.1A which means its not charging. Occasionally I see the same on my boat and invariably switching the shorepower panel switch off and then on again kicks it into life. You should see over 30A on the battery charger control when the charger first fires up. If that doesn't work then you may have a problem with whichever charger is switched in rather than the batteries.

Do I understand correctly that you have 2 chargers on board? Is there a changeover switch? I have 2 chargers on my boat but you have to choose one or other. On my changeover switch there is a neutral position which means that neither charger is on line. If that is how your boat is wired up, have you checked that the changeover switch is switched to one charger or the other? Obviously try both chargers to see whether you get a reading on the battery charger control display.

I would certainly not change any batteries until you are sure that one or both chargers are working properly
 
Whitelighter said:
ive never seen anything in the charger control panel, yet the batteries do get charged.
I wondered if when new chargers were fitted the charger control panel was bypassed?
Click to expand...

That would seem an odd thing to do. Was the boat originally fitted with 2 chargers and is there a changeover switch? If not how do they operate now (one for the service batteries, one for the engine start batteries?)? If you never see a reading on the charger control display how do you know they're actually charging?

Having said this I agree with the others. Batteries get hammered in Med boats and you'll be lucky to see 4 seasons out of the service batteries so maybe it is time to change them. Personally though I would still want to understand how the charger system works and why you aren't getting a reading on the charger control panel
 
Deleted User said:
That would seem an odd thing to do. Was the boat originally fitted with 2 chargers and is there a changeover switch? If not how do they operate now (one for the service batteries, one for the engine start batteries?)? If you never see a reading on the charger control display how do you know they're actually charging?

Having said this I agree with the others. Batteries get hammered in Med boats and you'll be lucky to see 4 seasons out of the service batteries so maybe it is time to change them. Personally though I would still want to understand how the charger system works and why you aren't getting a reading on the charger control panel
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Mike revisit post #17

Threes a switch to the R of the 13.6 V dial. It says "services " above and "engines" below .
Assuming this the switch and it's on Services
 
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