Dual Action Polisher


Hi,

Unfortunately, you're wrong, rupes really works well on gelgoat and on the more sensitive surfaces of cars. This machine is a Dual axon(random orbital), not rotary where rmp 700 good for gelgoat polish.

"the LHR 21ES promised nearly the same level of cutting performance as a traditional rotary polisher, but with none of the associated risks (excessive heat) or limitations (hologramming). And, as the last five years have proven, it delivered on this promise almost fully, with widespread approval from (and adoption by) the detailing community as a whole (i.e. both professionals and enthusiasts alike"

I've got a good job already quite weak gelgoat the surface oxidation, this video compouds(one step+wax), I used Flexipad short woll pad on the wheel and rupes 21, the video smaller rupes that does not cut as well as throw a bigger machine. Gelgoat does not heat up and the trace is superior.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY7BehswHzs

Another video is a boat and maby hifi polish job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCeaYYZKusc

NBs
 
Last edited:
It appears they also do a 15mm throw with lower rpm which would make more sense unless you're doing huge flat surfaces day-in , day-out:


Consequently, although it cuts faster, the LHR 21ES isn't as practical as its smaller brother, the LHR 15ES, for detailing, as its larger polishing footprint often feels cumbersome when working on curved surfaces and in tight areas against edges.
 
Not sure where the OP went....


Guilty of owning the machines discussed, most are gathering dust but that doesn't mean they are not good machines. All discussed will work for what they were designed to do.

What is 'the best' will depend on what you want to use it for.

An 'all-rounder' is probably 'the best' without actually being 'the best' as each machine has different features for each application, be it sanding, course compounding, fine polishing, swirl removal etc, then of course it is all subject to what material you are correcting and its ability to be worked with your chosen medium.

You can Google the difference between a 12mm throw and a 15mm throw in orbit and you'll learn something from someone, but this is really the difference between a milk chocolate fireguard and a dark chocolate fireguard for all the good that it will do you in the real world.
Once you learn to use a rotary correctly you will have less use for orbit in marine polishing applications and will save it for the sanding stages.

Not that these are 'the best', just what machines that are used by myself on a daily basis, so for me they are good all rounders.

Festool Rotex sanders & Flex PE-14-2-150

Tony
 
DiscoVolante said:
It appears they also do a 15mm throw with lower rpm which would make more sense unless you're doing huge flat surfaces day-in , day-out:


Consequently, although it cuts faster, the LHR 21ES isn't as practical as its smaller brother, the LHR 15ES, for detailing, as its larger polishing footprint often feels cumbersome when working on curved surfaces and in tight areas against edges.
Click to expand...

Hi,

I'm sorry a rough expression, of course it's your opinion, I hope you have the chance to try Rupes 21, so you'll find that it works really well, despite the high rmp and the big 21mm movement that also cuts if necessary, so big boat surfaces are meaningful to glow. If you are interested in this, you can find hundreds of web discussions on Rupes 21 and you tube videos, unfortunately most of the cars, it is difficult to find negative facts about the Rupes 21, so it can be found in several "auto" polishing professional equipments. Ammunition boat polishers drive with 240mm rotary machines. Secondly, the good result is not just machine, but the right choice pad and polishing agents when these three things can be fine with any variation.

And curve, i can fited pad holder 150mm-125mm and used a smaller pad. Rupes 21 is not my only machine, and if needed I can use my flex rotary or lower DA, but no need. In the video, a yellow car is driven by rupes 21 180mm pad, no bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4Zpcn5Zcws

And general great tips DA machines polich curve surface
https://youtu.be/M9HdpB04jD8

NBs
 
Marine Reflections said:
Not sure where the OP went....


Guilty of owning the machines discussed, most are gathering dust but that doesn't mean they are not good machines. All discussed will work for what they were designed to do.

What is 'the best' will depend on what you want to use it for.

An 'all-rounder' is probably 'the best' without actually being 'the best' as each machine has different features for each application, be it sanding, course compounding, fine polishing, swirl removal etc, then of course it is all subject to what material you are correcting and its ability to be worked with your chosen medium.

You can Google the difference between a 12mm throw and a 15mm throw in orbit and you'll learn something from someone, but this is really the difference between a milk chocolate fireguard and a dark chocolate fireguard for all the good that it will do you in the real world.
Once you learn to use a rotary correctly you will have less use for orbit in marine polishing applications and will save it for the sanding stages.

Not that these are 'the best', just what machines that are used by myself on a daily basis, so for me they are good all rounders.

Festool Rotex sanders & Flex PE-14-2-150

Tony
Click to expand...

Hi,

The same difference in the 12-15mm is but the belief difference is found between 12-21 mm and especially the rupes mark 2 where despite the pressure the pad spins though not forced, i have the same flex rotary as you and it is very good but i prefer to use nowadays Rupes 21 believe or do not, it makes the job lighter and easier to get a very good result.

NBs
 
I have that model and it's probably the one I use most for a single-stage turnaound. Bear in mind the backing pad is geared so getting a smaller one isn't as cheap as something like the Makita 6000.
 
NBs said:
Hi,

The same difference in the 12-15mm is but the belief difference is found between 12-21 mm and especially the rupes mark 2 where despite the pressure the pad spins though not forced, i have the same flex rotary as you and it is very good but i prefer to use nowadays Rupes 21 believe or do not, it makes the job lighter and easier to get a very good result.

NBs
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you are trying to say that there is a bigger difference between 12mm and 21mm orbit and where the Rupes 21 mark 1 was not a forced rotation, the mark 2 is a forced rotation like the Festool Rotex or the Flex VRG.

I agree
 
So, just to explain things a little here..

A dual action machine will rotate, but will also oscillate as it rotates.

The issue has been that a little pressure on the surface of the pad stops the rotational motion of the pad. This is due to the gearing being set up for oscillation rather than rotation.

Now machines are having the gearing set up as to provide both actions rotation and oscillation with forced gearing. Festool Rotex, Flex VRG, Rupes bigfootmk2 etc.

This means that although downward pressure is applied to the machine it will not stop rotating.

For me this has been of benefit only really in the sanding arena, for polishing a rotary is King of all-rounder, but that might not be the same for you.
 
The advantage is that you can switch to DA only with the same polisher and pad / compound and get a hologram free finish. Doing this with a rotary is a lot harder and not really within the capabilities of a beginner.

I would never use a rotary machine to sand gelcoat in preparation for polishing - a DA will remove more than enough safely.
 
DiscoVolante said:
The advantage is that you can switch to DA only with the same polisher and pad / compound and get a hologram free finish. Doing this with a rotary is a lot harder and not really within the capabilities of a beginner.

I would never use a rotary machine to sand gelcoat in preparation for polishing - a DA will remove more than enough safely.
Click to expand...

Why would you want to switch between forced and non-forced rotation unless for that application oscillation was a bad idea.

Why would you use a rotary to sand gel coat?

As mentioned I use a Festool Rotex - Forced rotation for sanding stages and a Flex PE as a rotary, both are completely different machines for different purposes.

On the polishing I prefer not to use a vibrator.

Perhaps I'm not explaining myself well.
 
Marine Reflections said:
Perhaps I'm not explaining myself well.
Click to expand...

That I think :confused:.

Marine Reflections said:
Why would you want to switch between forced and non-forced rotation unless for that application oscillation was a bad idea.
Click to expand...

DA alone allows easier finessing of the final finish which leads to fewer holograms. Forced rotation is great for speeding up the initial cutting. Where some detailers will use a rotary for the main correction and a DA for final polish you can use one machine to do both.
 
DiscoVolante said:
That I think :confused:.



DA alone allows easier finessing of the final finish which leads to fewer holograms. Forced rotation is great for speeding up the initial cutting. Where some detailers will use a rotary for the main correction and a DA for final polish you can use one machine to do both.
Click to expand...

How does that work then?

You are either forcing a dual action process (and yes I get the benefits) or you are switching it off and perhaps only recieving oscillation.

Are you confusing forced rotation as being a rotary and not seeing that forced rotation is the ability to have both oscillation and rotation in a DA under pressure?
 
No not confused - it's quite simple.

With forced rotation off the unit behaves as a normal DA - easy to use - hard to make mistakes - easier to get a good finish for a beginner.

Forced rotation on - faster correction due to getting some rotation and the machine not stalling under pressure. This is a half-way house to using a rotary which is less forgiving and quite easy to get holograms in the finish. By turning this off and finishing in DA mode you're less susceptible to overwork the polish and get a better finish. This is why they're used for single-stage correction - why did you buy yours?
 
DiscoVolante said:
No not confused - it's quite simple.

With forced rotation off the unit behaves as a normal DA - easy to use - hard to make mistakes - easier to get a good finish for a beginner.

Forced rotation on - faster correction due to getting some rotation and the machine not stalling under pressure. This is a half-way house to using a rotary which is less forgiving and quite easy to get holograms in the finish. By turning this off and finishing in DA mode you're less susceptible to overwork the polish and get a better finish. This is why they're used for single-stage correction - why did you buy yours?
Click to expand...

I didn't, I was sent it by Festool in exchange for opinion, turned out to be my choice of forced rotation tool ----for sanding.

A previous post you stated "I prefer a DA that can maintain a slower speed such as the DAS-Pro". But... this doesn't have switchable forced rotation??
 
No it doesn't - that's because the OP asked for a DA recommendation. As a hobbyist I wouldn't expect him to spend £300 on a polisher and even consider a forced rotation model - we seem to have gone off on a tangent because of the mention of a Rupes 21.
 
DiscoVolante said:
No it doesn't - that's because the OP asked for a DA recommendation. As a hobbyist I wouldn't expect him to spend £300 on a polisher and even consider a forced rotation model - we seem to have gone off on a tangent because of the mention of a Rupes 21.
Click to expand...

LOL indeed!

You also stated that the person behind the machine was more important than the tool itself, to this I am in full agreement.
 
Written text on this forum makes it easy to be on opposite sides of the fence, when in reality you are on the same side of the fence.

My opinion is very similar to yours, the person and technique is more important than the tiny improvements made to the machines. There is so much more to a job than drilling down to one feature of a rotation.

re-reading your posts rather than skimming them, it's clear to see you have a good understanding.
 
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