Drying legs - practical in fin keeler ?

[Boo2]

Hi,

Can anyone tell me how practical it is to use legs on a drying river mooring for a fin keel boat with 5 1/2 feet of draft ? I mean to leave the boat to its own devices for protracted periods and just wonder how likely it is that something will go wrong ? The boat does have a skeg but it is not as deep as the fin if that makes any difference ?

Thanks,

Boo2

 

[Ludd]

Hi,

Can anyone tell me how practical it is to use legs on a drying river mooring for a fin keel boat with 5 1/2 feet of draft ? I mean to leave the boat to its own devices for protracted periods and just wonder how likely it is that something will go wrong ? The boat does have a skeg but it is not as deep as the fin if that makes any difference ?

Thanks,

Boo2

No experience of legs(other than shapely ones)but I wouldn't even think about it.The stresses on the hull would be immense,as the boat took the ground(any wave action/) and unless you were 100% sure the bottom was level AND the boat was on a fore and aft mooring you'd almost certainly hit trouble.I dry out my long keel alongside occasionally and that's enough of a worry.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

The legs put high loading at the point of contact with the hull, the motion from wind and waves adds localised stress when the boat moves from side to side; in addition, if the ground is not flat hard sand, adds to the problem as the legs dig in.

If the location was in a very sheltered area with good solid bottom, i would leave the boat there on its own for a weekend if i had to, but no longer. I have seen heavy wooden boats in France left on their own supported by thick section wood legs, but they look very stable as if they were part of the boat, in addition, these boats were long keel.

 

[sailorman]

Hi,

Can anyone tell me how practical it is to use legs on a drying river mooring for a fin keel boat with 5 1/2 feet of draft ? I mean to leave the boat to its own devices for protracted periods and just wonder how likely it is that something will go wrong ? The boat does have a skeg but it is not as deep as the fin if that makes any difference ?

Thanks,

Boo2

a recipe for disaster imho
if she did sit on the keel / legs with a short fin what is to stop her twisting about the short keel in say high winds & falling over driving the leg into the hull

 

[vyv_cox]

Hi,

Can anyone tell me how practical it is to use legs on a drying river mooring for a fin keel boat with 5 1/2 feet of draft ? I mean to leave the boat to its own devices for protracted periods and just wonder how likely it is that something will go wrong ? The boat does have a skeg but it is not as deep as the fin if that makes any difference ?

Thanks,

Boo2

Unlike the two posts above, where despite admitting no experience they advise against, I have used legs for the past 15 years.

We have dried on them many times and overwintered on them twice. I know several owners who use legs on drying moorings. There used to be a pair of Sigma 33s permanently berthed in Ramsey IOM, a drying harbour, on legs.

Despite what your inexperienced expert tells you, there are no unduly high forces on the leg attachments. The weight of the boat is taken on the keel, the legs merely providing lateral support. Sideways loadings are avoided very easily, by setting the legs so that there is a clearance of 9 - 12 inches on one when the other is supporting the boat. This will mean that there is a slight lean on the boat but you will have no problems.

In a river, do you have fore-and-aft mooring? This is undoubtedly the safest method with legs, although a free mooring will be OK.

 

[sailorman]

Unlike the two posts above, where despite admitting no experience they advise against, I have used legs for the past 15 years.

We have dried on them many times and overwintered on them twice. I know several owners who use legs on drying moorings. There used to be a pair of Sigma 33s permanently berthed in Ramsey IOM, a drying harbour, on legs.

Despite what your inexperienced expert tells you, there are no unduly high forces on the leg attachments. The weight of the boat is taken on the keel, the legs merely providing lateral support. Sideways loadings are avoided very easily, by setting the legs so that there is a clearance of 9 - 12 inches on one when the other is supporting the boat. This will mean that there is a slight lean on the boat but you will have no problems.

In a river, do you have fore-and-aft mooring? This is undoubtedly the safest method with legs, although a free mooring will be OK.

Quote from OP
on a drying river mooring ( no mention of fore & aft mooring )
I mean to leave the boat to its own devices for protracted periods and just wonder how likely it is that something will go wrong ?

 

[pampas]

Sent to me by another member to solve the problem but the HM would not allow it on a swinging mooring.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Interesting comment Vyv. But I guess the location has to be carefully chosen - hard flat bottom, fairly precise location of grounding, no tidal swings (ie not in a tidal estuary) and fairly sheltered.

I have no experience of legs or even of drying out a fin, but the idea of legs on a swinging estuary mooring would worry me.

 

[vyv_cox]

Sent to me by another member to solve the problem but the HM would not allow it on a swinging mooring.

I believe that many yachts berth at Scarborough harbour despite the fact that it dries. I understand that many of them use a device like the one you show. Maybe some of them use legs instead? Any info?

 

[pampas]

I believe that many yachts berth at Scarborough harbour despite the fact that it dries. I understand that many of them use a device like the one you show. Maybe some of them use legs instead? Any info?

This was from the East Coast, The inner harbour at Jersey used to be very high uneven thick mud and very big boats all used this method. I never saw any there using legs.

 

[vyv_cox]

Interesting comment Vyv. But I guess the location has to be carefully chosen - hard flat bottom, fairly precise location of grounding, no tidal swings (ie not in a tidal estuary) and fairly sheltered.

I have no experience of legs or even of drying out a fin, but the idea of legs on a swinging estuary mooring would worry me.

The example I know well is on hard sand with a fore-and-aft mooring. However, as the tide is just lifting or landing the boat there is quite a bit of swirling, as clearly the lines will be fairly slack (North Wales, so a range of 8 metres or so) The trick of leaving about a foot of clearance seems to handle boat movement perfectly well. I thought that the boat might tend to 'trip over' the leg that is down but it doesn't happen.

I have used my legs in soft mud, where they work well. Yacht Legs have a flat plate at the foot of each leg which sinks at a similar rate to the keel. Only problem is cleaning them afterwards!

 

[oldharry]

Hi,

Can anyone tell me how practical it is to use legs on a drying river mooring for a fin keel boat with 5 1/2 feet of draft ? I mean to leave the boat to its own devices for protracted periods and just wonder how likely it is that something will go wrong ? The boat does have a skeg but it is not as deep as the fin if that makes any difference ?

Thanks,

Boo2

For once I have to disagree with Vyv - unless safely in a harbour as he is. Even in a river when the tide flows and picks the boat up, if the leg catches anything as she swings, then the full force of the tidal flow against the boat will come on to it. This can be more than enough to bend or break anything particularly if there is a strong wind or enough movement on the water to cause the boat to pound as she lifts. I have seen 3/8 steel bilge plates bent over like cardboard in this situation, and on one occasion ripped off the boat altogether sinking and writing the boat off, even though it had been specially reinforced to take the stress. Even steel legs will take very little lateral force of the kind they can be subjected to as the tide comes in and the boat slides round across the bottom.

Fore and aft mooring might be safer. Also it will depend on the state of the river bed: if there are humps and hollows, she is bound soon or later to come down 'awkward' and fall over - a certain law demands it! A really soft mud river bed might work, provided you can guarantee the legs will always penetrate the mud to the same depth - again a certain law prevails here to ensure it wont come down evenly eventually. On the other hand I have moored in a drying river where it would be entirely practical - though even hard sand can change shape surprisingly quickly!

Question 1: are there any other deep keel boats on these moorings? If so, how do the owners manage their boats?

Question 2: Will the mooring contractor / Harbour or River authority allow it?

Question 3: Will the Insurers allow it?

If you can answer yes to all 3 then it will probably work. If 'no' to 2 or 3 then its academic anyway!

 

[vyv_cox]

For once I have to disagree with Vyv - unless safely in a harbour as he is.

Only in the harbour overnight. One of the islands offshore Atlantic France. The other is at Gallows Point, Beaumaris. My legs are now stored in the garage, not much call for them in the Med.

The last time I spoke to Yacht Legs on this subject they advised that they had absolutely never heard of a boat falling over while using their product, nor of one breaking due to transverse loading. Admittedly the numbers using them full time would be small but it says a lot for the strength and design of these legs, considering how many there must be.

 

[Boo2]

...snip nice photo...

In a river, do you have fore-and-aft mooring? This is undoubtedly the safest method with legs, although a free mooring will be OK.

Although I haven't been allocated the mooring yet (or even bought the boat), I'm on the waiting list and have looked at the other boats on the river which are all on fore and aft moorings.

To answer another point, there is a tide and the river flow to contend with but I've never seen any swell at that point. It's true the river is used by cargo ships as well as yachts so there may be some wash but I think that would mainly apply when the tide is in and she would be afloat then.

Thanks to all for for the interesting debate,

Boo2

 

[macd]

The photo posted by pampas shows a cradle of the type popular in, I think, Scarborough. Myself and several other boats used a similar system in Peel, IoM, in the days when it was a drying harbour. As pampas suggests, it's only really suitable for a for-and-aft mooring, and only then when the bottom is fairly even. The system works well -- like parking in a garage. When it's time to lift out, just chug up the harbour with cradle attached, and both boat and cradle are lifted out as single unit.

If anyone's interested in more details of cradle construction and use, I'd be happy to respond.

 

[Kelpie]

I'm going to be making up some legs to fit my boat, which already has plates for the legs to be bolted to, but this will be for a one-off operation where I'll be neaping the boat to change through-hulls and possibly paint the topsides, if the weather permits.
The bottom is fairly firm- small gravelly stones and grit- so I'm wondering what sort of size of plate to put on the bottom of the legs?

 

[vyv_cox]

You can see a photo of one here. From memory they are about 15 inches square. The YL ones are a substantial casting, held firmly to the ends of the legs

 

[pcatterall]

I used legs on my long keel Atlanta. No probs with a good bottom and fair conditions but frghtening in some fast river conditions especially if she settles cross current.

 

[oldharry]

I think the bit that worries me most is that the boat will be 'left to its own devices for protracted periods'. So if anything does go wrong it will not be spotted until the damage is done.

 

[theoldplucker]

Go for a twin keeler and get some sleep on a night of gales !