DRUNK BOATING FINE

Re: DRUNK BOATING FINE

But that's not the point ....

He had a drink at the hotel before using the boat.

Seems article is to advertise the fact that Drinking is now being clamped down on while boating ...

Another mentions trying to get a tow and rescue services come out instead. Alacrity 19, full sail and seagull 40+ full throttle against Langstone ebb tide. I waved at inshore fishing boat to get them to throw line and pull me in - no danger just couldn't get in against it ... they ignored me - next I knew RNLI Atlantic 21 roars up alongside - fish boat had called them out ... it happens.
 
Re: CULPABLE AND RECKLESS ENDANGERMENT FINE

Seems to be a charge of Culpable and Reckless endangerment. Edinburgh Evening News says "Sibbald pleaded guilty to placing his passengers in danger of drowning by culpably and recklessly carrying them in a boat designed to take only five".

It is not a fine for being drunk in charge of a boat, but no doubt the inference is that if he and his pals had been sober he would have made two trips, or half of them would have walked.

Some peeps here might not think he did anything wrong, but he clearly thinks he did, because he plead guilty.
 
Re: DRUNK BOATING FINE

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I may not live in UK now - but do you think I was out here all time ? I do go back occasionally to HOMELAND you know ...

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That'll be to get your "spotted dick" treated under the NHS?
 
Re: DRUNK BOATING FINE

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Loch earn is fresh water and surrounded by mountains
CJ

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I thought it might be. So, he was probably never more than a hundred yards or so from the shore and there would be relatively few waves and no current/ tide.

Overloading is not a good idea, but how many do it for the trip back from the clubhouse after a few drinks - using a dinghy in tidal waters? Will plod be arresting 50% of yotties on moorings next season?

Perhaps his worst crime is allowing a "silly" girl on board? Or at least not managing to reassure her. Perhaps there was enough merriment & ribaldry going on for no-one to notice how scared she was?
 
Re: DRUNK BOATING FINE

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Loch earn is fresh water and surrounded by mountains
CJ

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I thought it might be. So, he was probably never more than a hundred yards or so from the shore and there would be relatively few waves and no current/ tide.

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Well, you're wrong about the tide - "Loch Earn is unusual in that it has its own apparent 'tidal system', or seiche, caused by the action of the prevailing wind blowing along the loch. This wind pressure on the surface causes the water level to build up at one end of the loch. As with all damped mechanical systems, applied pressure can result in an oscillation, and the water will return to the opposite end of the loch over time. In the case of Loch Earn, this has a period of 16 hours and the effect can be measured, but is difficult to observe. The resulting currents can create complex turbulence patterns, as higher layers of warmer waters mix with the lower lying colder waters of the loch." - Wikipedia.
 
Re: DRUNK BOATING FINE

Regarding overloading. In Australia all smaller boats must have a placard indicating max horsepower for O/B and max occupancy. To exceed the placarded occupancy is to invite prosecution. olewill
And rightly so.
 
Re: DRUNK BOATING FINE

Willy
The same applies here in the UK and in fact in Europe with CE marking.

It beggars belief at what some forum members "think" is OK.

All boats have a max loading and that includes crew and gear ~ and in this case the skipper exceeded both!

As for "drink driving laws" they are already "in-force" for both road and marine use and carry the same penalties. I.e. the same levels of being pissed apply to car drivers as well as skippers ~ just check the relevant laws!

I fail to understand why some forum members think that because they are on a boat something is somehow different?

If "plod" pulls you up for a minor traffic offence and thinks you're over the limit they can test you and if you're over the limit you're nicked ~ no excuses!

But forum memebrs seem to think that if you're on a boat ~ some different set of rules seem to apply?

Peter
 
Re: DRUNK BOATING FINE

I don't think anyone is saying it's ok to overload the boat or to drink and boat. That would be stupid.

What is posted about is the content of the article and the call out of rescue services - when it's reasonably obvious from the article even that the guy and his mate sorted it out. The call out of services in the end was likely an over-reaction on part of worried Mum.

My posts call into question certain parts of the article as they appear to be journalistic licence ... instead of full story.

I would agree that 10 people in a boat designed for 5 is not sensible.
 
Re: DRUNK BOATING FINE

[ QUOTE ]
Willy
The same applies here in the UK and in fact in Europe with CE marking.

It beggars belief at what some forum members "think" is OK.

All boats have a max loading and that includes crew and gear ~ and in this case the skipper exceeded both!

As for "drink driving laws" they are already "in-force" for both road and marine use and carry the same penalties. I.e. the same levels of being pissed apply to car drivers as well as skippers ~ just check the relevant laws!

I fail to understand why some forum members think that because they are on a boat something is somehow different?

If "plod" pulls you up for a minor traffic offence and thinks you're over the limit they can test you and if you're over the limit you're nicked ~ no excuses!

But forum memebrs seem to think that if you're on a boat ~ some different set of rules seem to apply?

Peter

[/ QUOTE ]

My boat has no CE marking, we were not members of EU when it was built. Commercial vessels are rated with carrying capacity - fairy Nuff, but my 32" ketch usually carries only me, has berths for 6 but could easilly carry 20 if I was picking them up off a sandbank when stranded by incoming tide.

And car drink-driving levels do not apply to boats because boats are NOT vehicles within the legal definition of vehicles. They are Vessels and different Navigational laws apply.
 
Re: DRUNK BOATING FINE

Searush ... I called my mate who's Chief Chase Driving Instructor for Police in xxx area.... when this came up before.

He checked and replied that Car Drink levels can be applied to Boats by in existence laws if necessary. The Vehicles were also confirmed that wheeled is not specific and it can be applied to boats.
Basically it is a line that's drawn and can be used for any conveyance driven by man in UK - being no other guide line. He also passed on that the Courts have the authority to set precedent.
I'm not going to argue with him !! Even if he's wrong and Chief Constable that he asked - I'm convinced enough to beware of it.
 
Re: DRUNK BOATING FINE

Fair point, but, as yet, there is no way one can be disqualified from using your boat as no licence is required to drive one in a non-commercial context; fined, imprisoned or otherwise bollocked, but not disqualified. Also the whole drinking thing, in this case, appears to be a red herring. It was only reported that the skipper had been drinking, not that he was over the limit. I have not read anything which gives the blood alcohol level of the skipper.
The great sadness I have with this is that it appears that we may be one step closer to being fully regulated in boat use. I say sad because I, and I think most other water users, put a great deal of effort through practice, study, asking advice and learning from small, usually manageable cock-ups, into becoming competent skippers. It would be worth bearing in mind the millions of trips where absolutely nothing bad happens as well as the lessons we can all learn from the times when it does go wrong. This case, in my opinion, had an OK outcome.
 
Re: DRUNK BOATING FINE

You may be right to describe introduction of control laws for boating is sad. I can tell you that UK rules appear to be miles behind most states in Australia. Here in West Oz all powered boats must be registered all skippers must be licenced and there is schedule of safety gear required before venturing in various degrees from the coast. carriage of radio is virtually mandatory. There are several government departments empowered to stop boats to check on safety gear (Police Fisheries and DPI (marine governing body) They all carry breathalysers and speed checking gear and do issue fines.
I would guess at around 15 boats in the Perth area on patrol at weekends. Fortunately they tend to ignore the sailing boats especially after they have lowered masts for bridges.

No I don't think it sad. A number of fatalities have prompted this. Every red blooded man reckons he needs a boat. Usually about 16ft of F/g or aluminium with 50 HP o/b on a trailer. In fact I calculate 1 registered boat for every 20 population. They reckon they can drive a car so why not a boat. The skippers ticket is a recent introduction and is given after practical training testing and written exam.

So either expect more regulation in UK or think yourself lucky or even neglected by government. olewill
 
Re: DRUNK BOATING FINE

Behind maybe, but not necessarily less effective. What are the accident, injury and death figures for Australia compared to here? I'm asking because I don't know. Putting the highly regulated figures beside our unregulated ones on a per capita basis would be very interesting. Anyone got these stats? The only stuff I've come up with after a quick search costs money.
 
Re: DRUNK BOATING FINE

[ QUOTE ]
Fair point, but, as yet, there is no way one can be disqualified from using your boat as no licence is required to drive one in a non-commercial context; fined, imprisoned or otherwise bollocked, but not disqualified. Also the whole drinking thing, in this case, appears to be a red herring. It was only reported that the skipper had been drinking, not that he was over the limit. I have not read anything which gives the blood alcohol level of the skipper.
The great sadness I have with this is that it appears that we may be one step closer to being fully regulated in boat use. I say sad because I, and I think most other water users, put a great deal of effort through practice, study, asking advice and learning from small, usually manageable cock-ups, into becoming competent skippers. It would be worth bearing in mind the millions of trips where absolutely nothing bad happens as well as the lessons we can all learn from the times when it does go wrong. This case, in my opinion, had an OK outcome.

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I was discussing this with people out here - where we have specific laws written for boats. They used to do as UK - tag the Vehicle laws onto boat use with one difference - they DID take your Car Driving licence for Boat offences ! That stopped in 2008 and they take Boat Licence as I know to my own cost. (Still subject to appeal).

What p*****s me off about the news article is the lack of actual detail :

What was the alcohol level of the guy ?
Why did water start coming in ?
Where was water coming in ?
Why did Helicopter guy go in water if boat was already beached ?
How come guys had time to don wet-suits to drag boat to shore ?

Sorry but IMHO - the story stinks and IMHO the case passed through possibly because it's reported Guy admitted to having a drink ! Then of course Journalist latches onto the Drink to sell the story ......... look at the title of it.

I think we will see a lot more now, precedent has been set and away it rollercoaster. It has out here - Police are now having courses in Boating and stopping people ... it's serious.
 
Re: DRUNK BOATING FINE

Sadly, Refueler, I think all of what you say is correct. I bet the YM training centres will be pleased. All in all, if you give authorities the smallest excuse to legislate, regulate and generally subdue free spiritedness they will take it many times over. Add the political claim that there are more police, albeit afloat, and the bonus of fines, licensing and all the other shite which goes with being told exactly what to do and it all becomes very attractive to someone flying a desk in Whitehall. Unless I've missed another mode of conveyance, once a boat licence is required, a bicycle will be the only thing not requiring a permit.
It will be a sad day when one of our last semi-freedoms are thrown away.
 
Re: DRUNK BOATING FINE

I choose to live out here in "Licenced Boating Land" ... but maintain my boats on UK SSR. So I live in a middle road game. I can sail out to sea without anything as UK flag, but interior waters - I need a licence myself - ICC or Local with advantage that boat stays subject to UK flag rules.
I wonder how long it will be before that starts to change. UK is one of the last N.European places that are so easy on boats inventory and licencing. Funny enough Sweden is similar !
 
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