Dromo Apollo 12 & Sigma 38

[Hawkflier]

I am going to look at a 20 year old Apollo 12 very soon. I really like the look of her and I think that she looks to be in good condition.
Does anyone know anything about these Greek yachts? I believe that she has a LLoyds plate.

If she is not the one, then there is a Sigma 38 that I am going to look at immediately after.

I would be interested for anyone's experiences and things to 'watch out for' with either of these two yachts.

I see this as a life decision as I approach retirment and before the money runs out (oops it just did as 2nd daughter within 3 yrs just got married but what the hell!); buy now or over the next few years it will be too late!
Cheers all!

 

[Quandary]

I can only comment on the Sigma 38, we owned one for 12 years, latterly purely as a cruiser, we still miss her. She was fast, tough and very seaworthy, did not need reefing until the wind was over 20 kts or gusts were over 24 kts. Sail controls are good, well specified and thought out with big winches, not all 38s had self tailing. With ten berths there is plenty of storage and the forecabin is dedicated to sail handling but if you like to put everything away in lockers you may not like using the pilot berths. The floors sit over a massive grp moulded secondary hull structure of longitudinal and lateral beams, needed for the massive rig loads these boats were designed for. The runners are a racing option but can be used to tighten the forestay on a hard beat, we kept ours but most cruisers removed them. The standard engine was the VP 2003 but some had the turbo, the 28hp. had all the power we needed and when taken to the workshop after 15 years or so was reported as un worn, just needing the bores honed, though we replaced all the bearings when it was out. There are massive variations in condition on these boats dependig not so much on how much they raced as on how they were cared for in between. Some spent most of the time full of wet sails and sodden gear.
Since I suppose you are more interested in downsides I will focus on those. The main is very big and in its racing version the boom is very low in the cockpit, dangerous with incompetent or light crew. A cruising main with a flattening reef cringle or higher cut leech is the answer to that. The main is heavy and takes a bit of work to hoist, a pain on short trips, we thought of a powered halyard winch but this would have ruined the headroom in one of the aft cabins. There is no dedicated engine battery but this is easily rectified. The mickey mouse ear shaped composite cast iron/lead keel needs care if drying out alongside. The teak strip in the cockpit is that teak over ply so popular with British yards and needs care if it is to last. (sikaflex deck caulking and masking tape) The frig. could do with more insulation to reduce battery load, but the galley worked fine. The little vanity unit with sink in the port aft cabin is a selling agents joke. The furniture and upholstery is from the same factory as Moody and almost identical, we found ours durable. You will be offered loads of sails as racing sails were replaced regularly and the rejects kept for 'cruising' take all that are offered, try them and dump the ones that are shot.
I would recommend the Sigma 38 as a great cruising boat unless you have a very aged and decrepit crew.

 

[dt4134]

Sigma 38

I've not owned a Sigma 38 but I've raced on quite a few, both inshore and offshore racing.

It's a boat you feel you can trust when the weather builds up.

I've a few comments to add to Quandry's.

She's a boat designed to be sailed by a large crew. IIRC, the reefing is at the mast, for example.

The No.1 takes a bit of grunt to tack, but then again as a cruiser you'd probably want furling gear and a smaller headsail.

The pilot berths are quite comfortable at sea, which may not be your first impression looking at them. They're a little uncomfortable sometimes if you're over 6'.

I think the ones I've been on have invariably shipped water down the mast. I used to think this was the norm for keel-stepped masts but it isn't. Worth looking into. It may have been that each of the boats I was on was raced hard and it was just a little lack of maintenance.

They were used a lot by sea schools too. You may end up having to refurbish the woodwork and replace the upholstery, but you should easily be able to spot that.

 

[Hawkflier]

Sigma 38

Can I thank both of you for your comments. They will be invaluable to me when I look at the Sigma.

The right crew is my worry in that it is going to be difficult to get experienced crews for longer trips, and it will take some time to get the willing newbies up to standard. Although this is something you always have to deal with in that it took a few seasons for the skipper that I raced for to get a solid crew together. I think that I will be paying for everyone to do a practical Comp Crew or even day skipper course before this summer is out!
Quandry what was the name of your Sigma 38? I ask because the yacht I am going to look at (unless she has been sold before I get to view) is based in Argle.

Again many thanks for your information as I am as nervous as hell about committing so much of my cash to a luxury item when I am reaching a stage in life where I won't be able to replace it easily!
Cheers

 

[Quandary]

Sigma 38

The water down the mast problem, provided the boot is in good condition is caused when the foam bulkhead inside the mast at deck level, which is supposed to divert water that gets in, out through drainage holes gets worn, exacerbated if the boot is too high and blocks said drains, it can be restored with reasonable care with a judicious insertion of polyurethane foam. The amount of ingress is very small anyway. Our reefing lines and halyards, like most, came back to the cockpit but the boom does not have single line reefing cars so you need to go forward to slip the cringle over the hook on the boom, easy to do, she is a big solid boat. My wife and I cruised our for years and our main gripe was the effort required to raise and stow the big main, we never noticed a problem with reefing though we tended to look for help from the autopilot. Look for a 6000 or 7000 series autopilot, the 'wheel' pilots are struggling and if that is what the boat has I would switch to a ram type, easy to fit in the stern locker.
If you want to pm me with the name or sail no. of the boat you intend looking at, I may know a little about its racing history or perhaps its condition, but with the Sigma 38 the condition which varies widely should be apparent on first inspection, I can't think of any hidden pitfalls that would be difficult to detect, but if it is in the water you might want to budget for a folding prop within a season or two.

 

[Hawkflier]

Sigma 38

Quandry,
I have just sent you a private message.
Many thanks for your advice it is very useful.