Droguing in the Channel?

[Seagreen]

Rather than foisting a nasty case of thread "drift" (welcome to bad-pun-thursday), I thought I'd start another.

If you were to deploy and lie to a drogue in bad weather in the western channel, (or anywhere around the coast for that matter), assuming that you couldn't or didn't judge it safe to keep sailing and had plenty of searoom (leaving aside how you missed a bad forecast):

Would the MCA and French just leave you to get on with it or would they insist you accept a tow? In other words, would they be happy to anounce your position and let you ride out the storm even if you drifted into and through the TSS or would they attempt to remove you despite this being a dangerous operation to them and you?

Or would it just depend on where you were when the next VLCC came along?

 

[Twister_Ken]

If you were in a TSS 'they' would take a dim view and whisk you away.

If not in a TSS, why would even bother to notify them, unless you actually did want assistance?

 

[Brian blue bear]

Rather than foisting a nasty case of thread "drift" (welcome to bad-pun-thursday), I thought I'd start another.

If you were to deploy and lie to a drogue in bad weather in the western channel, (or anywhere around the coast for that matter), assuming that you couldn't or didn't judge it safe to keep sailing and had plenty of searoom (leaving aside how you missed a bad forecast):

Would the MCA and French just leave you to get on with it or would they insist you accept a tow? In other words, would they be happy to anounce your position and let you ride out the storm even if you drifted into and through the TSS or would they attempt to remove you despite this being a dangerous operation to them and you?

Or would it just depend on where you were when the next VLCC came along?

If you needed to deploy a drogue in the situation you discribe I would deem Possibly the situation to be serious enough to put out a Pan Pan call, the authorities would then be in the Position to decide a safe course of action, or no action, or to monitor, you may not be in Immediate danger but things can change rapidly.., they may indeed in Busy shipping lanes poor weather upgrade to a mayday...... It would be your decision to avoid specific dangers in the area you are in, If you cannot, you are potentially in danger, the rescuers then may insist for your safety and the safety of others you are moved,.... all depends on the day and the traffic... 'In my opinion'

 

[marklucas]

Securite

As stated previously, if you were in a TSS then you'd want to be out of the way and the respective coastguards would certainly be keen to assist you, IMHO.

However, if you're in open waters then just put out a Securite announcement every hour - I'm sure the coastguards would hear you and offer any assistance / monitor your position as would every other vessel. Put your decklights on as well to be very visible and have your white hand flares to hand.

Best Securite I ever heard was mid-channel on the way back from St. Vaast La Hogue to Hamble. About 4 hours into the trip, a crew member asked if we were almost there as she could see a chimney. As we were on a 44' yacht and not a MOBO I didn't need to look at a chart to say "No, we're only a third of the way!". However, several other crew members started saying that they could see one, no two, no three chimneys!

1100 arrives shortly afterwards and CH16 crackles into life: "Securite, Securite, Securite. This is tug XXX position YYY requesting a 4km clearance ahead of my position and 1km either side.

I'm towing an oil rig!"

We kept clear!

Just miss the sonic boom of Concorde waking you up on X-Channel now!

 

[Brian blue bear]

opinions on a securite?

As stated previously, if you were in a TSS then you'd want to be out of the way and the respective coastguards would certainly be keen to assist you, IMHO.

However, if you're in open waters then just put out a Securite announcement every hour - I'm sure the coastguards would hear you and offer any assistance / monitor your position as would every other vessel. Put your decklights on as well to be very visible and have your white hand flares to hand.!

Haven't thought in open waters there would be a need for a Securite anouncment, what are others thoughts on this?

other safety points a matter of standard maybe, not the deck light in Daylight.

 

[Stemar]

My 2p'th

Haven't thought in open waters there would be a need for a Securite anouncment, what are others thoughts on this?

I'm not sure if there is such a thing as "Open Waters" in the channel - at least, not so open that a regular Securite wouldn't be a good idea if you're not under command, which, ISTM, is the case when hanging off a drogue.

 

[Seagreen]

I'm not sure if there is such a thing as "Open Waters" in the channel - at least, not so open that a regular Securite wouldn't be a good idea if you're not under command, which, ISTM, is the case when hanging off a drogue.

This was my take on it. Perhaps in the western channel where sea room is at least available, then lying to a drogue would be an option, but it seems to me that east of the IOW, the channel becomes so narrow that lying to a drogue becomes dangerous, like parking in the middle of the M25.

My tuppence worth is that lying-to in the western approaches is feasible from a "traffic" viewpoint, but that not only is there no room, but the proximity of shelter makes it unnecessary.

My point really was that, should a reocurrence of the type of weather that hit the fastnet race i 1979 happen durng another race or cruise, where a Low pressure system deepens far more rapidly than even experienced crews expect, and they have the drogue, then would they be safer using the drogue or would the Rescue services try to pull them in despite this being potentially more dangerous? Does anyone have experience of this?

(BTW I hate this Acer keyboard...)

 

[fireball]

With todays technology I'd be surprised to find any racer (worth his salt) 'caught out' in similar circumstances - both the forecasting ability and the communication ability has improved drastically - and if the weather is marginal even a racing skipper will be looking at safe havens on route.

 

[EdWingfield]

I asked MCA a similar question ie. lying to a Paravane in the North Sea.

I suggested we'd probably like to catch up on sleep. They were quite happy with a Securite and new position when we woke and then when under way again. In the meantime they'd regularly warn shipping of the situation.

Upon asking what lights to show they were unsure - although the common sense feeling was all round white.

We don't have the shipping probs of the Channel but we have the oil and gas fields.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I'm not sure if there is such a thing as "Open Waters" in the channel - at least, not so open that a regular Securite wouldn't be a good idea if you're not under command, which, ISTM, is the case when hanging off a drogue.

yes I tend to agree with Stemar.
A quick look at the ais websites also give you a good idea where to keep a special lookout outside the tss areas e.g.http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/

Careful though you don't accept a tow and 'lose the boat' to salvage when there wasn't a real necessity.
As already said, better to lay low in bad weather as a tow is poss the last thing to consider as the risks are high.

 

[LadyInBed]

Last time I had to wallow around in the Channel, not in a TSS but in the area where ships funnel in and out of the TSS, was because I was freeing a rope from the prop.
I just sent on low power an All Ships giving my position, that I was drifting and asking to keep clear.
If you start getting the 'Powers that be' involved then they feel it necessary to be involved!!
Strong winds around a TSS, you either act before you get to it or put up with it till out. One consideration is that most of the TSS's in the Channel run E-W and as most of the big winds go E-W then you could be drifting down the TSS obeying the rules.

 

[electrosys]

Upon asking what lights to show they were unsure - although the common sense feeling was all round white.

Interesting - when flying a sea anchor or drogue - are you anchored, or not under command ?

Anchored suggests tied to the seabed. Not under command suggests drifting without any control.

Kinda 50/50.

 

[JayBee]

Interesting - when flying a sea anchor or drogue - are you anchored, or not under command ?

Anchored suggests tied to the seabed. Not under command suggests drifting without any control.

Kinda 50/50.

Here's what the IRPCS say:

"The term "vessel not under command" means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to manoeuvre as required by these rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel."

If you are lying to a sea anchor you are NUC, not "anchored"

However, I have never seen a yacht equipped with a set of NUC lights, let alone the day shapes.

 

[andygc]

Interesting - when flying a sea anchor or drogue - are you anchored, or not under command ?

Refer to the COLREGS, you know it makes sense

Rule 3 (f)

The term "vessel not under command" means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.

Oddly, the COLREGS do not define "at anchor", so I turned to the Concise Oxford Dictionary which told me

anchor
noun
a heavy object used to moor a ship to the sea bottom, typically having a metal shank with a pair of curved, barbed flukes.

verb
moor with an anchor. = secure firmly in position.

PHRASES
at anchor = moored with an anchor.

Hmm, that's enough pedantry for today.

 

[boatmike]

While I would, and have, both carried and deployed a drogue in a blue water situation, when cruising the English Channel I not only don't carry one, but would not deploy one. TSS aside there is simply not enough room and too much traffic for it to be safe. It's definitely a strategy of last resort and there is simply no way I would stay out there rather than seek shelter if available. The question is therefore IMHO a purely hypothetical one especially with regard to TSS which I would always seek to stay well clear of in any weather requiring the use of a drogue.

 

[VO5]

Here's what the IRPCS say:

"The term "vessel not under command" means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to manoeuvre as required by these rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel."

If you are lying to a sea anchor you are NUC, not "anchored"

However, I have never seen a yacht equipped with a set of NUC lights, let alone the day shapes.

If you are lying to a drogue / sea anchor you are technically a vessel not under command, because you are prevented from manoevering freely which is what the not under command rule covers.

Mine is.

Two black balls separated by a six foot lanyard ready to hoist in the fore part of the vessel using the inner forestay and the spinnaker hallyard.

Ditto for the two red lights.

Every well found yacht ought to have them.

An efficient spotlight with long beam capability is also very useful.

But there again, I am a dyed in the wool traditionalist.

 

[PeterR]

The terms drogue and sea anchor are being used as if synonymous in this thread whereas in practice their respective use would give rise to two different scenarios.

Deploying my drogue (Seabrake) over the stern I still expect to make 3-5 knots depending on wind speed and whether I have left the storm jib up. It just removes the risk of broaching and makes it safe to use the autohelm. Moreover you retain a degree of directional control so whilst crossing a TSS would not be fun it would not be unreasonable under cover of a security warning and an eagle eye kept on the AIS.

Deploying a sea anchor, e.g Paravane, over the bow leaves you essentially dead in the water. It is difficult to envisage a scenario where you would choose to do this in the enclosed waters around the UK but if you did and found yourself being swept into a TSS if you were not prepared/able to retrieve or ditch it I think it would be time to think of calling on the rescue services.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Mine is.

Two black balls separated by a six foot lanyard ready to hoist in the fore part of the vessel using the inner forestay and the spinnaker hallyard.

Ditto for the two red lights.

You're having us on and I claim the prize!!

 

[wridue]

Paul and Rachel Chandler, the British couple kidnapped by Somali pirates, have pleaded with the government to “get us out by Christmas, by whatever means”.
The pair, taken captive from their yacht more than seven weeks ago, accused British officials of refusing to help secure their release.