Driving Licence for a boat - What's wrong with that ?

[Ken_Irby]

This is also true of continental "skippers"

I should mention that I work in the industry and see many newcomers to the sport.

With regard to new powerboaters particularly ( no offence ) I would estimate that as many as 50% have now idea of colregs, ability to read a chart , understand tides or how to moor a boat. To be fair, most are more interested in fishing than boating . As a result, many frighten friends and families, not to mention other boaters and very often pack up after a short time.

All because, they are led to believe that it is not important enough to have some form of education.

Met a charter crew in sami, keffallonia a few years back. the german "skipper" told me that he had bought his licence from a post office.
Chas on Kentrina's login so not necessarily her views

 

[Refueler]

Latvia's minimum licence needed for 2.4m boats and above is a Multiple Choice exam paper of 10 questions ... 80% score minimum to pass.

You'd think it might be CEVNI with that style etc. ? Nope - Latvia doesn't recognise CEVNI even though red triangles and other signs are starting to appear on bridges etc. The exam is about which side to pass each other on, what speed on inland waters ... simple stuff only with no practical.

 

[Wansworth]

I am aproud owner of a certificate to navigate in boats up to 12 mtresWhen I attained it the invigilater helped me as my Spanish (nautical) was thin.A mate of mine ,rtw sailer swiss by birth has just completed the same but now there is a practical which is a utter waste of peoples time but makes money for a so called sea school..what a joke.Still at one time the Spanish where quite competent sailors,they just forgot their history and as the law are made inMadrid or Brussels they have little interest in boats except to raise some sort of tariff,nearly a rant!!!!!!

 

[photodog]

I have a "Skippers" wallet certificate from the Moorings... apparently this qualifies me to skipper any Moorings charter yacht worldwide.

Would this suffice for European inland waters as well? Could I just send it the to RYA and get them to issue a ICC or YM?

 

[KristiferColumbus]

what are you moaning about he wasn't even close.
This is close....

(and I think your comment was tongue in cheek but seriously don't turn this into another mobo rant, it affects everyone equally)

I have no intention of turning it into a rant but you cannot get a good impression of the distance using a digital camera.The one I posted was I would say within 50' & yet either side of us was plenty of space.Why come so close?(& he was'nt the only one that day,another plonker came within 30/40 feet of us & was even more dangerous.I was to busy trying to maintain our course & hang on to even consider taking a photo).
I don't want to tar all motor boaters with the same brush because I have come across some that have been very considerate but some are just plain stupid or selfish or both

 

[ninky]

It wasnt THAT long ago that was exactly what was the case ... My father didn't have to take a test to drive, but chose to have Hendon Police College teach him voluntarily ... little while later Govt brought in compulsory testing.

it wasn't that long ago passports were invented either and people were free to travel as they wanted. tbh if we could get rid of passports i'd be willing to concede driving licences for boats.

 

[Seven Spades]

I nominate EdExcel to conduct the tests. 20% correct = grade C ... A PASS

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Compulsory tuition followed by mandatory examination where a 90% passmark is set. Prior to taking compulsory tuition mandatory gap analysis shall be undertaken by an independent body who shall issue Competency Based Development profile against a standard criteria set off range statements. The aspiring sailor shall then produce an Individual Development Plan which shall be approved by said independent body. Upon approval of IDP potential sailor shall close out gaps in skills by attending additional training. Potential sailor shall build an evidence portfolio and be assesed as competent to start training. Comptency shall only be approved if all staged fees are paid. Inaddition competacies shall not be transferable between service providers but may be bridged after assesment and payment of bridging fee.

The above bull**** is a light hearted take on the actual c**p that now exists in private industry from evil HR professionals. Now that the credit crunch is making those who live in the halls of unhelpfulness surplus, they will be looking for opportunities to apply their evil logic.
Compulsion is on it's way for many reasons and I hope enough of us will fight this when it raises it's head.

Rant over, sorry!

 

[Tranona]

Compulsion is on it's way for many reasons and I hope enough of us will fight this when it raises it's head.

Rant over, sorry!

Not sure that is so. Nothing on the horizon from government or "safety lobbies" that I have seen.

 

[curve]

I'm all for it for people who use a certain type of anchor.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Not sure that is so. Nothing on the horizon from government or "safety lobbies" that I have seen.

Local Authorities are currently reviewing additional methods of fund raising. Apparently its some association of Local Authority money men who have drafted up various proposals e.g land value tax, local sales tax, licensing opportunities etc etc. These people don't make the laws but are listened to.

I hope you are correct.

 

[Tranona]

Local Authorities are currently reviewing additional methods of fund raising. Apparently its some association of Local Authority money men who have drafted up various proposals e.g land value tax, local sales tax, licensing opportunities etc etc. These people don't make the laws but are listened to.

I hope you are correct.

Sorry, that is just scaremongering. Local authorities hav no responsibility for maritime matters. This is a central government responsibility. Registration and crewing of British ships is the responsibility of Department of Transport and maritime safety the MCA. Neither of these bodies has shown any interest in testing and licencing leisure sailors.

The only way that could change would be a political process of the "something must be done" variety such as the one that brought the drink law in (even though it has not yet been implemented). There is no sign of this. The other way is through international pressure such as that which brought in the SSR. However this has already been dealt with the UK being one of the leading proponents of the ICC under the UN resolution.

Does not mean we collectively should not be vigilant and use every opportunity through our representative bodies to demonstrate there is no need for tests and licencing.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

I believe the most important items you need to know about boating before starting can be written on one side of A4. The rest can come later. For example on colregs-

1. Drive on the right.
2. Give way to a boat coming from your right
3. Keep clear when overtaking.

Would be enough to prevent the daily occurrences of small (and sometimes not so small) mobos who drive as if they're in a car and scream abuse when you try to pass port to port.

The question is - how to (a) get beginners to read it and (b) make them realise they need more knowledge for more challenging circumstances?

Yes. I think many of us would be happy with this.

I think the Insurance companies could be made to put more pressure on the Marinas/Mooring Owners to first time takers .

A simple DVD/Video could perhaps be provided when signing up. I find that most first time boaters are interested in this type of thing. A signed document perhaps being a condition of insurance.

 

[Vanilla]

Compulsory tuition followed by mandatory examination where a 90% passmark is set. Prior to taking compulsory tuition mandatory gap analysis shall be undertaken by an independent body who shall issue Competency Based Development profile against a standard criteria set off range statements. The aspiring sailor shall then produce an Individual Development Plan which shall be approved by said independent body. Upon approval of IDP potential sailor shall close out gaps in skills by attending additional training. Potential sailor shall build an evidence portfolio and be assesed as competent to start training. Comptency shall only be approved if all staged fees are paid. Inaddition competacies shall not be transferable between service providers but may be bridged after assesment and payment of bridging fee.

The above bull**** is a light hearted take on the actual c**p that now exists in private industry from evil HR professionals

Sadly not just private industry but this virulent and seemingly incurable disease has infected the NHS and universities too.

 

[peter radclyffe]

2 Points:

Rant 1:
As an about-to-be OAP, I most strongly object to the suggestion that in 2 months time I will no longer be able to handle a boat without bumping in to things. Just because one particular marina has an overload of stoopid gits (NOT just old ones) who think its OK to hit other boats without reporting, does NOT mean anyone over the age of 65 is senile and incapable. Nor does it mean that younger age groups cause fewer accidents.

Rant 2:
Every single one of us was once upon a time a novice sailor. Some of us did the courses. We still made mistakes. Others never did a course, but the Sea taught us to respect it anyway.

One thing I will guarantee - we ALL made mistakes. Thats how we learned. Mistakes that would make us cringe with shame if we did them now - and seem to make some of us furious when the next generation coming onto the water do the same.


Rant over.

one more hypocrite with a bigger hammer, just what we need

 

[oldharry]

You missed my point Peter.

 

[Tranona]

Yes. I think many of us would be happy with this.

I think the Insurance companies could be made to put more pressure on the Marinas/Mooring Owners to first time takers .

A simple DVD/Video could perhaps be provided when signing up. I find that most first time boaters are interested in this type of thing. A signed document perhaps being a condition of insurance.

Why should insurance companies be responsible for this? How do they determine if an individual is "new" or needs instruction? They assess risk and charge an appropriate premium, applying restrictions if necessary.

There is more than enough information available already on how to operate a boat safely and where to get training.

I assume when you are selling boats to newcomers you point them in the direction of the RNLI and RYA.

 

[Ubergeekian]

It has always seemed logical ( to me) that if you buy a boat ,you should have the basic skills and knowledge how to use it and how interact with others safely.

In view of the number of boats around these days , surely a compulsory licence is now necessary. Many other countries think so too.

Why is this such a bad thing ?

Because it would have to be enforced. Everywhere. All the time.

 

[bbg]

It has always seemed logical ( to me) that if you buy a boat ,you should have the basic skills and knowledge how to use it and how interact with others safely.

In view of the number of boats around these days , surely a compulsory licence is now necessary. Many other countries think so too.

Why is this such a bad thing ?

The worst feature in my very personal view is that newcomers to the sport feel that it is obviously not important enough to need education therefore I won't bother.

We also have cases where you can pass RYA so called exams, with very little actual experience of sailing and hold a subconscious thought you are capable of doing things you really should not be doing.

Surely no freedom comes without responsibilty so why the
fear ?

I would be very interested to here people's views.

Why is it such a bad thing? The real question is "Why is it necessary?" Elassar got it right with the very first response - a question you have not answered - "What is the problem you are trying to fix?"

If you really think it is a good idea to have compulsory licensing for boating, you would undoubtedly be the first to support compulsory licensing for REALLY dangerous sports - such as cycling, horse riding, skateboarding, swimming, golf. Perhaps also for rock climbing, rambling. I believe more people die from accidental poisoning each year than from boating, so perhaps we should have compulsory licensing for anyone wishing to buy dangerous household products?

 

[Observer]

Hi Elessar,
One of the reasons I feel so strongly on occassions against mobos relates directly to your photo 'this is close'.

I was 'putt putting' across Lyme Bay some 3 seasons ago going West at some 5 knots, no wind, blue skies.
I was down below fixing a snack and my wife was in the cockpit. She happened to mention that a boat was behind us some 5 miles off as far as we could make out. We paid no more attention to it until it was about 5 lengths off us doing the sort of speed as suggested by your photo.
It passed us at no greater distance than you see in the photo and it was a boat of similar type and size..
The wash came into our cockpit and through our companionway soaking the nav' desk. The lunch being prepared was thrown across the galley.
My wife was momentarily terrified in the cockpit, but thankfully more shaken than stirred.
I gathered myself from the sole of the saloon and got up into the cockpit to see the offending boat, speeding off into the distance.
There was not a soul to be seen on the bridge or anywhere on the boat.
I tried to contact the boat by vhf but the name was not readable with the spray and it was by this time in the distance. I got no reply. I did not contact the coastguard but on reflection I should have done.
I can only assume that the 'driver' was 'downstairs' doing as 'Jason' suggests in another blog relating to RKJ, .....'getting a life'??
My wife was in her 'infancy' as a sailor and was nearly put off by the experience.

This could be one reason why powerboaters/mobo drivers should have a licence which they could lose for misbehaviour.??

If a licensing scheme was in place when this incident occurred, how would that have changed the outcome? You couldn't read the name of the boat anyway so how would the errant skipper have been challenged/prosecuted?