Drink, the law and us......the future ?

Should smoking be banned when babies and children are in the same vehicle?

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When the police themselves admit that the existing laws are already more than adequate for this purpose, what will a new law achieve?

Yet another knee jerk reaction to a non-problem by a set of tosssers who would not know how to carry out a proper job.
 
Re: Falmouth ....

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So one thing we know for certain is that sober or drunk boats will carry on running into things

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As well we know it isn't the boat that, as you say, carries on running into things.

What on earth are you proposing, crumple zones in yachts that are incapable of speeds in excess of 6 knots.

Crumple zones in hulls on fast planing boats would be mainly useless in collisions with other boats, except for larger craft or obstacles.

Are you proposing seat belts and air bags as well?
 
Re: Falmouth ....

It's not the boat but the person driving it and that persons knowledge and that persons condition. So, twice the legal limit could not have helped navigate the boat at 30 to 40 knots......But - I must admit there are not many incidents like this one and I have not seen many others reported. It's the same old story - those that care will learn and be responsible and those that don't will not !
 
Re: Falmouth ....

I'm not saying we should have anything.
But if we have a report biased to he must have been drunk, that was the cause, so we have to have breatherlyser laws to stop them. But ignors how the people were killed, and could this be improved to limit injury.
Also was the skipper asleep? not concidered, he had been awake for 19 hours ?. Did he nod off looking at the leading lights coming in to harbour ?.

How many people are killed or injured ? how they injured ? do we know ?
Most people riding bikes wear a helmet know, with a boom flying around why not yachtman? 10 years ago they laughed at cyclists with helmets.

Brian
 
Re: Falmouth ....

I think you will find that if the law is brought in it will not change the toll significantly however the law needs to have teeth to enable enforcement of responsible behaviour. Here in West Oz the law has been enacted for many years the limit being that of car driving. I think the rules are needed because of the huge number of run about boats in the 16 or 18 ft class with 40HP outboard used occasionally by car drivers. (it is just like a car isn't it?)
Patrol vessels do carry breathalysers the whole question is not a great issue. Patrols do stop and check boats for safety gear at popular departure points and recreational skipper's licences will be mandatory next year.
Nanny state maybe but it is the way of the future hopefully to weed out and correct the stupid and ignorant. All in all I accept the regs and support them. olewill
 
I suppose as someone who doesnt drink I should be all for this. Trouble is that I find I am quite capable of fairly resounding cock-ups when stone cold sober so not quite sure how this new law is going to help me.

What bothers me rather more than the law itself how it is to be policed.

At present only police officers have a right of arrest. Is this going to be extended to other "officials"

If I am sailing along minding my own business does a policeman in a boat have a right to stop me and breathalyse me.

If so this will presumably be random testing such as is not supposed to happen on the roads.

If I make a cock-up of parking (again) will the harbourmaster have a right to arrest me pending being breathalysed by a policeman?

Would the same argument apply to a marina manager?

What penalties will there be?

Can one be disqualified from sailing - even if you are not qualified in the first place.

Will there be some sort of order (ASBO?) to prevent you from sailing.

Will the rule apply to crew as well as skipper?

Can a banned skipper go sailing as crew - or vice versa?

Or could he go as a passenger?

Will there be separate bans for sail and power?

It goes on and on

Sounds a complete can of worms to me

Like so much of the legislation this misbegotten government has produced.
 
Here in West Oz again only the water police (ie real police who can arrest) or the officers of the govt department who regulate water activity can stop you for a breath test and or check of licences and safety gear. The latter officers can only fine you ( for refusing a breath test) mostly these officers can convince boat operators to turn back into harbour for lack of safety gear.
Funny because it is quite a process to lower the mast on a decent sized sailing boat just to get to the ocean through the harbour they seldon bother sail boats for safety gear checks. olewill
 
I'm intruiged.

Was drink boating an alleged problem 30 years ago? 20 years ago? 10 years ago? I don't recall any of this nonsense, I recall remote canalside pubs 20 odd years ago with little signs reminding drivers about drink driving, but none reminding boaters. I'll admit to having had six pints for lunch while narrowobating before now. And didn't clout nowt neither. Young and foolish then, of course.

When did it become an alleged problem and what factor(s) caused this to come into being? Otherwise you are treating symptoms, not a disease. And the patient is a known hypochondriac.
 
Maybe the answer to that is a perception generally (by that I mean outside of boating) of an increase in drink related problems, accidents, and crimes. The interesting question is how much of that has spread to the boating community. Personally I don't think it has - with the exception of some weekend and holiday boaters who like to tank up and get on the water. Do remember that we to are at risk from them.

I would agree that the law is unenforcable, and that adequate laws are already in place. However maybe it's all part of some notion of sending out a clear message. For instance when the laws relating to child car seats were introduced there was some blustering about a nanny-state and of how the police couldn't send large numbers of young mums to jail. However the introduction of that law made it clear that not having a child seat is clearly illegal, and there is now a strong social stigma attached to not having one. Maybe a boating drink law would have a similar effect...?
 
Yeah yeah yeah. And my dad used to beat me black n blue and it didn't do me any harm, and my grandmother smoked 60 a day till she was 98, and we only had a bath once week and shared the water, and no-one knew what an banana was...

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I would agree that the law is unenforcable, and that adequate laws are already in place. However maybe it's all part of some notion of sending out a clear message.

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th eclear message that would contribute to safety is most simply delivered by visibly enforcing existing regulations, especially local byelaws.

unfortuanately the people tasked with this (local authorities) do not have the financial resources to undertake this and there are, bluntly, too many parties with an interest and not enough with absolute responsibility. Many councils have excellent local byelaws and not a hope of enforcing them or following through with their own processes - see Conwy thread on another forum (mobo) currently.

With specific regard to the boating / drinking issue the problem is drawing the line - to achieve an overall improvement in safety it would seem to make sense to ban the use of alchol by all on board all and any vessels that do not have a professional crew anywhere but on a permenant mooring or marina berth. this however would be somewhat unpopular .................
 
It's a tricky one. Clearly the skipper should be sober. But does that mean everyone else is allowed to be rolling drunk? When I go out I rely on at least one other member of my party being competent and clear headed. Preferably two. If everyone but me got rat-arsed I'd be in trouble. On the other hand, there's no harm in the 'pasengers' getting overly tipsy - provided they don't stray onto the deck. How do you legislate for that?

Seems to me that if the current laws are byelaws that are meant to be enforced by local councils, then that's about the equivalent of there being no laws at all! If that's all there is, then I would agree that maybe some changes are in order.

It wasn't made clear just who the relevant minister was consulting with...?
 
I hope you weren't expecting an answer to that
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. But let me ask a question - how many other folk here are under the impression that the current situation is basically unregulated, and that most sailing folk think that provided you don't have an accident or draw undue attention to yourself you're not really doing any harm going on to the water over the limit? That's certainly the impression I get...

But I'm not saying that the proposed legislation will fix that.
 
I don't see anyone saying its fine to be drunk in charge of a boat anywhere in this thread, so I don't know where you're forming your opinion.

I do see lots of people concerned about the practicalities of such a law (because applying the car mindset doesn't work) along with questioning why there is a need when there are so few prosecutions under the existing bylaws.

Rick
 
No I didn't form the opinion here.

Maybe you're right: I think I've just had a bit of bad luck dealing with a couple of drunkards (one of whom turned up to crew on our maiden voyage at 8am still drunk from the night before! It all ended with a near catastrophe with the RNLI being called out. At the time I thought he'd sober up as day went on, but little did I know that below decks he had a secret bottle. That day was a nightmare.) I should know better than to generalise. Still, maybe my experience isn't so unusual...

Anyone...?
 
you seem to have neatly illustrated how an individual under the influence can affect a boat without being skipper very clearly - thank you

add to this the clear statistic that it's people falling off boats, out of dingies etc that form the more significant casualties and you start to see that it's not people being drunk in charge it's anyone being under the influence around water ..........finally add those people not even on boats but 'on the water' and the stats go through the roof.
 
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