Fin
New member
I'll sign it.
Drink boating- e petition, anyone?
- Thread starter Seagreen
- Start date
Cornishman
New member
[ QUOTE ]
Have any ill-considered navigation/safety decisions been caused by alcohol?
[/ QUOTE ]
The very recent (this week) case at Truro Court following the death of Ben Cochrane in 2005 just about sums up the need for a drink/boat related regulation, doesn't it?
Have any ill-considered navigation/safety decisions been caused by alcohol?
[/ QUOTE ]
The very recent (this week) case at Truro Court following the death of Ben Cochrane in 2005 just about sums up the need for a drink/boat related regulation, doesn't it?
Brayman
Active member
But they were boath small open boats.
Lakesailor
New member
Were they capable of more than 7 knots?
Cornishman
New member
You bet they were!
The one that was hit was a dory with a very large o/b motor, and the one that hit him was a speed boat. A witness in the dory who escaped serious injury described the speed boat as leaving the water like a skier on a ski jump when the collision occurred!
Speed boat driver got away with 150 hours community service order, which has upset a lot of people. The dea man'sd father recvkons you get more than that as a persistent shoplifetr.
The one that was hit was a dory with a very large o/b motor, and the one that hit him was a speed boat. A witness in the dory who escaped serious injury described the speed boat as leaving the water like a skier on a ski jump when the collision occurred!
Speed boat driver got away with 150 hours community service order, which has upset a lot of people. The dea man'sd father recvkons you get more than that as a persistent shoplifetr.
1
1yppah
Guest
There was a chap in Florida about 7 years ago (Ft lauderdale) came out the intercostal in something fast, hit a boat and got banged up for 90 years although this was reduced to about 65...he had been drinking oh an he killed 6 people. I actually believe the Americans have got it right on this one
aitchw
New member
The proposed legislation would not have prevented it nor would it solve the problem of inappropriate sentences being handed out. There is already legislation that can be used in such circumstances. Why do we need more especially when it is as ill conceived as this is.
Seagreen
New member
Well this seems to be my point exactly.
People are already prosecuted and convicted under existing laws, so <u> why make new ones?</u>
If it's only the gonks in Whitehall who think they need a new Law, how will they be able to actively enforce it?
Will HMG create a new waterborne Police enforcement arm? Will Harbour authorities be able to arrest people? As I read some of the proposals, Harbour authorities will be unable to arrest people but have to call Police, who will attend if they can.
So, imagine the scene: Captain Halfcut is accosted by the AHM in his dory, who says "I believe you are sailing over the limit" and calls the Police. Halfcut ties up, goes to a local pub and by the time the Police catch up with him, has witnesses to say he "was sober when he came in, but has had a few shandies in the last half hour" by which time the breathalyser is irrelevant.
Budget - who will pay for all this new enforcement? How will the money be raised to pay for all this? How much nationally, £10 million, £20 million? More?
"Surely boaters (I hate that word, BTW) should contribute to the safety and upkeep of security of their sport" I bet the reasoning goes, "so its only proper that HMG levies a charge against all mooring owners, to be colllected by Harbour authorities and marinas" And then the SSR numbers will be used to track down "offenders" and Trailer sailers will still be exempt as they don't have boats normally falling within the 7m, 7Knts rule.
A big legal row will develop over drinking whilst moored and drinking at anchor, so skippers, crew and anyone on board being deemed "responsible for navigation" can be prosecuted.
And, in order not to appear foolish, the Ladyman will want a few trophy scalps just to prove how effective it all is, and what a "good little junior minister he's been and can he now have a proper grown up cabinet job pleeeze!" Like foreign affairs or defense.
Thin end of a very nasty wedge.
/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
People are already prosecuted and convicted under existing laws, so <u> why make new ones?</u>
If it's only the gonks in Whitehall who think they need a new Law, how will they be able to actively enforce it?
Will HMG create a new waterborne Police enforcement arm? Will Harbour authorities be able to arrest people? As I read some of the proposals, Harbour authorities will be unable to arrest people but have to call Police, who will attend if they can.
So, imagine the scene: Captain Halfcut is accosted by the AHM in his dory, who says "I believe you are sailing over the limit" and calls the Police. Halfcut ties up, goes to a local pub and by the time the Police catch up with him, has witnesses to say he "was sober when he came in, but has had a few shandies in the last half hour" by which time the breathalyser is irrelevant.
Budget - who will pay for all this new enforcement? How will the money be raised to pay for all this? How much nationally, £10 million, £20 million? More?
"Surely boaters (I hate that word, BTW) should contribute to the safety and upkeep of security of their sport" I bet the reasoning goes, "so its only proper that HMG levies a charge against all mooring owners, to be colllected by Harbour authorities and marinas" And then the SSR numbers will be used to track down "offenders" and Trailer sailers will still be exempt as they don't have boats normally falling within the 7m, 7Knts rule.
A big legal row will develop over drinking whilst moored and drinking at anchor, so skippers, crew and anyone on board being deemed "responsible for navigation" can be prosecuted.
And, in order not to appear foolish, the Ladyman will want a few trophy scalps just to prove how effective it all is, and what a "good little junior minister he's been and can he now have a proper grown up cabinet job pleeeze!" Like foreign affairs or defense.
Thin end of a very nasty wedge.
/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
poter
Active member
Ok,
agree with most of the sentiments above, & also believe that petitions are almost useless but I have emailed said minister & hope for an answer to my questions.
give it a whirl & see if we get at least one reply!
Stephen.Ladyman@dft.gsi.gov.uk
poter.
agree with most of the sentiments above, & also believe that petitions are almost useless but I have emailed said minister & hope for an answer to my questions.
give it a whirl & see if we get at least one reply!
Stephen.Ladyman@dft.gsi.gov.uk
poter.
trouville
N/A
Im shocked to read this!!I do hope Europe dosent follow forceing sensiable contries such as France to follow suit!
Many have a small glass of white wine at 8am.And how pleasent to find a cafe where a bottel of good local wine can be enjoyed together with bread and sausage at 11.00am
When im on passage i have a thermos of cool white wine in the cockpit it makes the day so much better.
Im now going for lunch where i will enjoy a good red!
Many have a small glass of white wine at 8am.And how pleasent to find a cafe where a bottel of good local wine can be enjoyed together with bread and sausage at 11.00am
When im on passage i have a thermos of cool white wine in the cockpit it makes the day so much better.
Im now going for lunch where i will enjoy a good red!
flaming
Well-known member
[ QUOTE ]
Thin end of a very nasty wedge.
/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly.
I can see a situation where the Media get uppity cos someone convicted of "drink sailing" is not banned (as there is no liscence to take away) and then the powers that be have the excuse to introduce compulsory liscencing so that they can take them away for drink sailing!
And compulsory liscencing is a bad idea.
Thin end of a very nasty wedge.
/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly.
I can see a situation where the Media get uppity cos someone convicted of "drink sailing" is not banned (as there is no liscence to take away) and then the powers that be have the excuse to introduce compulsory liscencing so that they can take them away for drink sailing!
And compulsory liscencing is a bad idea.
Seagreen
New member
I have finally come to realise that this move has been inspired by the treasury.
The Logic:
HMG needs someone else to tax, therefore, Yachtsmen (and women, etc) are generally well off, not labour voters anyway, and thus an easy cash cow.
The sadly tragic, yet in relation to the total, few deaths from drink related accidents and the MAIB reports can be used as a trigger to define a problem and to create a new tax revenue stream.
In order to police the new powers, the new "marine officers" will need some sort of payment. As such, funds have to be raised from the policed, and the only effective way to do this is to have an enforced licensing system.
Hence, taxation. The money raised by licenses will far exceed the costs of enforcement, and Mr Brown pats Ladyman on the head for another sneaky tax.
/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
The Logic:
HMG needs someone else to tax, therefore, Yachtsmen (and women, etc) are generally well off, not labour voters anyway, and thus an easy cash cow.
The sadly tragic, yet in relation to the total, few deaths from drink related accidents and the MAIB reports can be used as a trigger to define a problem and to create a new tax revenue stream.
In order to police the new powers, the new "marine officers" will need some sort of payment. As such, funds have to be raised from the policed, and the only effective way to do this is to have an enforced licensing system.
Hence, taxation. The money raised by licenses will far exceed the costs of enforcement, and Mr Brown pats Ladyman on the head for another sneaky tax.
/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif