Drastic reduction in secondhand boat prices ?

Barely worth selling now, the market is so low.

I have an old but well maintained and very well equipped 39 foot boat with new sails, upholstery etc, electronic gizmos galore, radar, forward looking sonar and a bunch of upgrades and even at a good price it is attracting little interest.

Will just hold on to it and write the capital off now I think.
 
A great deal depends on where the boat is; I know someone selling a good Anderson, he has had a lot of phone interest but even with things like RyanAir people aren't willing to travel to Ireland just to look at a boat.

The location is mentioned in the ad', though some decent photo's I repeatedly asked him for would help a lot too, very difficult to shift anything without supplying good pics.
 
JumbleDuck said:
As one who regularly browses the "Sailing Boats" category of eBay for a bit of window shopping, I see a huge increase in the number of nice looking boats offered there over the past couple of weeks.
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No way? You mean they didn't advertise over Christmas and the New Year and waited until afterwards? Surely not ;)
 
Seajet said:
A great deal depends on where the boat is; I know someone selling a good Anderson, he has had a lot of phone interest but even with things like RyanAir people aren't willing to travel to Ireland just to look at a boat.

The location is mentioned in the ad', though some decent photo's I repeatedly asked him for would help a lot too, very difficult to shift anything without supplying good pics.
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It's not easy at all to get people to take flights for a boat viewing at the moment even with good pics.

However I have found a short video will work wonders, but it takes time and effort.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=john rodriguez yachts&sm=3
 
nimbusgb said:
Barely worth selling now, the market is so low.

I have an old but well maintained and very well equipped 39 foot boat with new sails, upholstery etc, electronic gizmos galore, radar, forward looking sonar and a bunch of upgrades and even at a good price it is attracting little interest.

Will just hold on to it and write the capital off now I think.
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I guess a lot depends on how much it is costing you to own it and how much you are using it. There's a mobo near us in the marina that has been on the market for at least three years with an asking price of around £60k. I've never seen the owner use it - he does turn up every few months to clean it and run the engine for a while. He must be paying around £3k for the berth and the marina insists on insurance. He must have paid at least ten grand to hold onto a boat that he doesn't use and which is losing value with age - and that does not take into account the loss on interest on the money that is tied up - would have made more sense to discount it years ago to the point where it sold.

If you have a relatively cheap swinging moring and are still using the boat, then the sums may come out different.
 
The market has definitely dropped in the last couple of years and has hit AWB's especially. If you have something different and rarer to sell you will be OK and can even make a nice profit. I sold a Crabber 24 & Drifter within two weeks of advertising them in the last 3 months - had 4-5 people enquiring about each until I pulled the adverts.

Some people just don't realise or are not willing to accept their boats are worth less. 2 years ago I looked at a Crabber Yawl with a rebuilt engine (no thanks). He was asking 26K through a broker which was too much and I advised him a Yawl is 21K tops. He has since put it up for 22K but it's still too much and is worth around 19K maybe - it's a bit of an olds mans boat, not helped by terrible presentation with all his gear strewn all over the place - made the broker livid! I wonder how much he has paid in mooring/storage fees over two year in 2K at least.

Buy well and sell well... You can haggle more than 20% off as well ;) Do some of the haggling over the phone before you have a wasted trip. You can gauge if the seller is prepeared to do a deal.
 
photodog said:
Those look good. Creating aspiration is I think really important.

Video is a excellent media to do that... Beats stills or panos I think...
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Thanks, they have worked very well but a boat, even on a dock, is not the easiest thing in the world to video!
 
Lazy Kipper said:
No way? You mean they didn't advertise over Christmas and the New Year and waited until afterwards? Surely not ;)
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Not much of a dip over the festive season. Sorry, I should have been clearer: the rise I I am pretty sure I see is above the autumn level. I don't think it's a sign of economic recovery as a much as an indication that if you are selling a good boat you do it now.
 
maby said:
I guess a lot depends on how much it is costing you to own it and how much you are using it. There's a mobo near us in the marina that has been on the market for at least three years with an asking price of around £60k. I've never seen the owner use it - he does turn up every few months to clean it and run the engine for a while. He must be paying around £3k for the berth and the marina insists on insurance. He must have paid at least ten grand to hold onto a boat that he doesn't use and which is losing value with age - and that does not take into account the loss on interest on the money that is tied up - would have made more sense to discount it years ago to the point where it sold.

If you have a relatively cheap swinging moring and are still using the boat, then the sums may come out different.
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Very true. Our 5 or 6 weeks aboard in the Greek sun probably work out at well under €1000 per week even with all the losses and upkeep included. Compared to buying a holiday that's pretty reasonable so not worried about selling.

The other consideration is where to keep any money that you get from a sale ........ the way the FTSE is performing at the moment it's probably less insecure in a boat! :) :)
 
jonic said:
Simply not true and I shouldn't think the yachting press will take kindly to you accusing them of facilitating a "big con".

To a professional and registered full service yacht broker with all the tools and data feeds at his disposal the market is pretty transparent. Actual sold prices are streamed in real time to him. As he (or her of course) is generally only paid on successful completion of the sale he has no interest whatsoever in overpricing a boat. That just generates lengthy advertising costs to him and fruitless and expensive journeys to viewings that will come to nothing.

The more likely scenario is that a private seller, who does not have access to the data or expert market knowledge, will almost certainly value their boat at a higher than market price. The broker then often has the difficult task of sitting down with the seller and showing them where the market price does in fact lay at that moment in time.

All the costs are paid for by the seller, not the buyer. The buyer benefits from the brokers market knowledge, VAT status checks, title and mortgage checks, RCD status checks, professional indemnity insurance and finally the correct legal transfer of title and completion documents.

The seller also benefits from all the above plus he doesn't have to deal with the preparation of the photography and specification, the advertising, the viewings, the initial sales negotiations, drawing up the sales contract, the post survey negotiation, holding the deposit in a trust account, settling any disputes after survey, receiving the final payment in a trust account and the legal exchange of title documents once the funds have cleared.

Hardly a con.
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Having been a yacht broker for a number of years, I agree with jonic, if the poster quoted really thinks it is a "cosy" job, then he should try it.

George
 
jonic said:
Simply not true and I shouldn't think the yachting press will take kindly to you accusing them of facilitating a "big con".

To a professional and registered full service yacht broker with all the tools and data feeds at his disposal the market is pretty transparent. Actual sold prices are streamed in real time to him. As he (or her of course) is generally only paid on successful completion of the sale he has no interest whatsoever in overpricing a boat. That just generates lengthy advertising costs to him and fruitless and expensive journeys to viewings that will come to nothing.

The more likely scenario is that a private seller, who does not have access to the data or expert market knowledge, will almost certainly value their boat at a higher than market price. The broker then often has the difficult task of sitting down with the seller and showing them where the market price does in fact lay at that moment in time.

All the costs are paid for by the seller, not the buyer. The buyer benefits from the brokers market knowledge, VAT status checks, title and mortgage checks, RCD status checks, professional indemnity insurance and finally the correct legal transfer of title and completion documents.

The seller also benefits from all the above plus he doesn't have to deal with the preparation of the photography and specification, the advertising, the viewings, the initial sales negotiations, drawing up the sales contract, the post survey negotiation, holding the deposit in a trust account, settling any disputes after survey, receiving the final payment in a trust account and the legal exchange of title documents once the funds have cleared.

Hardly a con.
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As with everything in life it depends.....

You are a 'proper' broker who does his job well, great presentation and takes pride in what he does.....Others aren't quite the same.

My current boat was advertised through a broker and she (the boat) was on the hard alongside the broker's raised viewing/access pontoon. I asked for the details and asked to view the boat. I got handed a 2 page A4 leaflet with the details of another boat tagged on the back. The images on the leaflet were of low enough resolution to be useless. I was told that the brokerage did not hold a key to the boat and the owner had them but could be at the boat in about 20 minutes. I declined this and went home....The broker was more interested in playing with his Range Rover outside the office than selling a boat.

With the aid of Google I found the owner :)

He informed me that the brokerage did indeed have a key in the boat's file as he had used it the previous day to access the boat. The file also contained additional information, and history of the boat. Not sure how the previous owner was meant to be with us in 20 mins as he was 60 miles away.

I went ahead with the purchase but I refused to deal through the broker.

The brokerage is (apparently) ABYA and BMF registered.
 
Malo37 said:
The best way to reduce the cost of a second hand boat is to eliminate the broker. Otherwise his salary, his secretary's time and other office overheads plus the required profit margin of the company he works for are all added to the cost but not the value of your boat. It's al a big con in my view supported by the yachting press who thrive on broker advertising. Very cosy.
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Now that's a 'trolling' gambit if ever I saw one! It is noted that the contributor is frae/aroond Aib'rdeen.... 'Yon gouk's bum’s oot the windae' - and we a' ken that chiels frae ra Doric are tite as a crab's arris at twenty fathoms...
 
Scarboroughsloop said:
As with everything in life it depends.....

You are a 'proper' broker who does his job well, great presentation and takes pride in what he does.....Others aren't quite the same.
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Indeed my quote only applies to decent reputable yacht brokers.

PM me the name of the clueless (or keyless :cool:) one you described and I'll make a note.
 
oldbilbo said:
Now that's a 'trolling' gambit if ever I saw one! It is noted that the contributor is frae/aroond Aib'rdeen.... 'Yon gouk's bum’s oot the windae' - and we a' ken that chiels frae ra Doric are tite as a crab's arris at twenty fathoms...
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I know that is good, I just don't know what it means.
 
Seajet said:
I'm still getting enquiries about Anderson 22's ( people forget there was also the 26 ) - not as many as I used to, but the people I do get in contact are serious.

Prices seem to have dropped about £1,000 compared to peak a few years ago.
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Hell. I'll have one, and you don't even need to pay me the £200 you'll owe me ;)
 
philld said:
I did look at buying a new boat, but after an initial burst of enthusiasm I just couldn't see my myself being able to live with the latest offerings from Jeanneau or Beneteau so I'm going down the second hand route.
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How interesting. I did exactly the opposite. I could never have imagined myself buying a brand new boat. Last season I was looking for something slightly larger than my 361. I didn't see anything in the condition I was seeking so, almost casually, looked at a new one. I was immediately seduced by it and bought it in 10 minutes flat. In my view, it has much to offer over second hand, except the price, of course.
 
Lakesailor,

in your dreams Pal !

Brokers;

I once enquired about an A22 at a famous East Coast ' brokers ' on behalf of an interested novice, as I knew what questions to ask.

Me: Could you mail me the inventory please ?

'Broker' : We don't do inventories

me: Well is the trailer roadworthy ?

'Broker' : Well it got here ( 4 miles on backroads )

'Broker' : We've just been asked to sell her by a boatyard

Me:; Actually she's been ashore for sale at X marina for years...

Me : Can you tell me at least if she has an anchor ?

'Broker' : Well we sell secondhand anchors.

---

As I'd been on this boat a while before while workng on another and knew the saloon sole had actually disappeared due to rot and the fitout was diabolical with mild steel bolts through the topsides I felt the ' broker ' was not really being forthcoming, the prospective buyer lived in the far West Country so I was at least able to tell him not to waste his petrol.

Jonic, that's the sort of muppetry which does your profession nothing but harm, what gets me is that ' broker ' is a long established place which seems to survive, when a hit by a falling space station or something would be natural justice...
 
"The more likely scenario is that a private seller, who does not have access to the data or expert market knowledge, will almost certainly value their boat at a higher than market price. The broker then often has the difficult task of sitting down with the seller and showing them where the market price does in fact lay at that moment in time."

Equally it could be argued that brokers will often claim to be able to get a higher price in order to get the owner to sign up. (vis some estate agents). There are several boats on brokerage at inflated prices that have been on the market for years. I have bought five 'big' boats and sold four with no broker involvement and no problems.
 
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