Downwind sailing ... Main out or not?

[KellysEye]

>http://www.simetric.co.uk/twizzle_rig/equipment.htm

I see he has tied the poles together with rope and leather anti-chafe gear on the poles. We use a stainless double hinge with the normal mast type pole rings each side of the hinges with outward splayed cheeks each side of the rings. I can't find a picture of one and ours is on the boat.

 

[Conachair]

Having the boom out with a preventer and poled out genoa is a pain and the rolling horrible. The way to go is twin matched headsails. Even better a Twistle rig which we have. The poles are on a hinged fitting with an uphaul and downhaul. The poles are thus not attached to the mast so you dont get the sail pushing the mast and vice versa when rolling. It cuts down the rolling noticeably.

Always liked to look of those. Though gooswinged I never roll too much and easier to set up than a twizzle appears to be.

2 foresails on the same roller would be nice, easy reefing for a crossing.

 

[TQA]

2 foresails on the same roller would be nice, easy reefing for a crossing.

I had this on a previous boat with a Profurl.

While it was a dream on a downwind leg it really needed near calm conditions to hoist and lower the second sail. This meant you often would have two sails on the same side if conditions changed which produced some serious chafe.

 

[Poignard]

A few questions about the Twistle rig

Having the boom out with a preventer and poled out genoa is a pain and the rolling horrible. The way to go is twin matched headsails. Even better a Twistle rig which we have. The poles are on a hinged fitting with an uphaul and downhaul. The poles are thus not attached to the mast so you dont get the sail pushing the mast and vice versa when rolling. It cuts down the rolling noticeably.

I read about these and they seem a good idea but, as I understand it, the two headsails are sewn together at the luff, is that right?

If so, when you are reaching or sailing close-hauled, one sail lies on top of the other, effectively making a very thick sail. So how does it perform in light airs?

Also, when it is furled it must make a very large diameter roll of canvas. Isn't that extra windage on the bow a problem when manouvering?

If sailing close-hauled, how do you tack? Do the two clues have to be lashed together?

 

[Twister_Ken]

I had this on a previous boat with a Profurl.

While it was a dream on a downwind leg it really needed near calm conditions to hoist and lower the second sail.

Shouldn't do with a twin-groove luff foil. Std practise for changing headsails on racing boats.

 

[Sgeir]

For long passages in light airs, and with the wind behind, it's hard to beat a spinnaker imho.

However, we usually sail as a couple, don't have a snuffer, so can be a bit of a fanny getting it up, and even worse getting it down if the wind has suddenly come up strong (I know, I know...). So for us the usual easy option is goosewinged with the genny poled out on the windward side, and a preventer rigged for the main. Used this arrangement yesterday in fairly light winds, perhaps losing half a knot to a knot to yachts that were motoring.

We also carry a jibsail which we've used in the twin foil. Not so much preference, but just in order of how we've exercised the choices;

1. Goosewinged - poled out genny and prevented main;
2. Spinnaker; and,
3. Jib and Genoa in twin grooved foil.

 

[capnsensible]

We faced this dilema on the way down to Portugal, tried a few things including goosewinged with poled out genoa but with wind from one direction and swell from another the rolling was not kind on the rig. A fellow cruiser suggested we drop the main and run the genoa to a block on the end of the prevented boom to leeward and pole out the No 2 geoa to windward from the inner forestay.

Worked a treat.

Top way of doing it, I reckon. Done 2 Atlantics on our boat with that rig. Add a hydrovane and Roberts yer fathers sibling.

Failing that, on other deliveries, prevented main and poled out headsail work ok. Wary of telescopic poles though, broke one in a squall.

With spinnaker, its easy to forget the true wind ramping up and reducing one large spinnaker into a larger number of not useful ones.

 

[Poignard]

Wary of telescopic poles though, broke one in a squall.

+1

It poked through the sprayhood, narrowly missing my head.

 

[30boat]

I've used the furling genoa poled out on one side and the jib on the removable forestay.If the wind is from dead aft this can be taken to the boom end .Works perfectly.

 

[Nostrodamus]

Has anyone used one of those patented preventers or does evryone use the normal method. Is there an easy way rather than leading a line from the boom forward and back?

 

[Sgeir]

Has anyone used one of those patented preventers or does evryone use the normal method. Is there an easy way rather than leading a line from the boom forward and back?

Some people use figure of eight descendeurs and other bits of climbing gear (which I've never tried on the boat). But the line from the boom is pretty straighforward; it takes less than a couple of minutes to fix a block at the bow and have a continuous preventer that can be used on the opposite tack after a controlled gybe. Sorry about the scrappy drawing;

 

[Blue5]

Has anyone used one of those patented preventers or does evryone use the normal method. Is there an easy way rather than leading a line from the boom forward and back?

We opt for the preventer from boom end to block on the bow, we have it rigged in a continuous loop so never have to leave the cockpit if we gybe, usually set up before we leave port.

Edit: As Sgeir Above

 

[haydude]

That depends on the boat, the sail shape, and how enthusiastic the crew is about keeping at trimming sails and rig. Therefore any advice will be subjective.

I found out that for long distance cruising down wind, which is really when you do not want to keep trimming the sails, goose-winging is not a solution. Every time I set it I had eventually to get the boom back to avoid continous stress on the rig and myself. Clearly that would not be the case when sailing on a lake like the Solent, where there is no real swell, but out in the Atlantic the swell is inevitable.

What works best for me is to have the main on the same side as the genoa. But if I do it the main blankets the genoa making it ineffective and flogging, therefore since I have in-mast reefing I reduce the main to a size where I see that it does not have any effect on the genoa. That way the genoa fills and drives even without a pole. If the weather and swell allows I use also a pole.

If the genoa has to fly without a pole and flogs, I just reduce its size until it stops flogging, and the drive from it improves or at least becomes more constant.