Dolphin Sails

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Sundowner 39

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Dolphin Sails Appalled.
I purchased a main and mizzen sail from Dolphin Sails during the refit of my Oyster 39. Due to the refit, it was some months before I could bend them on and when I did, I found that the mizzen had not been made loose footed, as ordered and that it only had one reef point. If that wasn’t enough, the sail was also short on the boom by 10”.

I contacted John Sturmer of Dolphin, as I had dealt with him during the sale. He duly came to view the sail, at first not realizing the loose foot and reef issue. He suggested that the sail may have been cut “lean” so that it would not chafe the back stays. An interesting observation as I have running back stays. I asked him “as my sail maker” to confirm that the sail was the correct size as ordered, he declined and realizing the other faults took the sail away.

After a few days I phoned him, as there had been no contact, he told me that the sail’s foot would be re cut and a second reef would be inserted. When I questioned the sail size I was told that it was correct and had been built to the standard Oyster 39 sail plan. I pointed out that I had Dolphin measure the boat and had specified that I wanted bespoke sails, as I said to them; I could have had standard sails off the internet.

There was now a further issue, if the sails were standard it meant that the main was not as I had specified, as it had been ordered with extra boom height.

So, I now have a main sail which is not to specification, a mizzen that is short, a re cut mizzen foot, and a reef arbitrarily placed in the sail. Dolphin’s answer was:
“Sail with the main for a while and they would re cut if I was unhappy”
“Re cut the mizzen and pop in another reef”
“We will give you 25% of the mizzen price”
“but nothing for the main”

I wasn’t looking for money, I was looking for quality. They at no time admitted they were wrong, even though they had built the sails to the standard Oyster 39 pattern, which was not what I requested or what they had confirmed they would build. It seems my order was immaterial; they simple built what they wanted to. My efforts to resolve the issues were just stone walled and it was quite obvious there was no intention to supply the product I ordered.

I have today received the cheque, i.e. the 25% off the mizzen, which took several weeks to arrive.

I am left with a main sail which is not as ordered and a mizzen sail which has been modified. I didn’t pay with modified money, I don’t see why I should have what amounts to a second hand mizzen and an incorrect main sail. I am appalled by there arrogance and their total lack of customer service.

I leave it to you to decide whether you could risk dealing, with or even getting a quote from this company ……………..I know of two owners so far, at my home marina (Fox’s) who feel there are plenty of good sail makers to go to, with out taking this kind of after sales risk.
 
A fair reflection of my own experience.
I was told my main would stretch out to the black band on the boom in a season or so.
They missed the third reef off
They did not sew a webbing loop to restain the clew of the main, but supplied 3 feet of velcro to go through the clew eye and round the boom. It looks charming.
They did not triple stitch and denied I had asked for an offshore spec sail.
The did not put chafe patches on the reefing cheek blocks.
They did not put chafe patches on the spreader areas.
They put the reefing cheek blocks on the wrong side of the sail
The sliders were wrong and the sail would not go up the mast
The battens were the wrong length
The genoa was badly cut and fluttered like mad in the top third.

Mr Sturmer wriggled and wriggled asnd did his company no favours at all. I got so fed up with them that I could speak to them. My wife had to take over the remaining conversations.


In all, it was cheapo chinese made rubbish, and a Dolphin sticker bunged on the side.

I do like the Jeanneau logo though.


Total Carp service and guess what? I won't be dealing with them again


I had Mick at Wilkinson Sails of Burnham recut the genoa, and it now performs correctly. He also added the missing boom slug to the main.
 
Justifies, to me, why I have never dealt with them.......never been happy with the quotes/customer service/response when I have inquired on two occasions trying to source locally etc....but then China is not too local to Suffolk.................
 
Sorry to hear that but thank you for informing the forum. I can't understand why Oyster would use them if they are trying to sell a quality boat, except perhaps to save money.

Yoda
 
Sailmaker

If the experiences quoted above are the norm I am pleased that I elected not to go with Dolphin for my new main.

I recently ordered from Advantage sails. Mark has supplied the sail as specified. I have not yet paid him because of him not being in his loft when I was last at Brightlingsea but do intend to pay him this coming Monday.

I guess that Dolpin required a deposit and probably full payment before delivery.

Mark did not even ask for a deposit! That to me is a sign of his confidence that I will be happy with final product.

I certainly would recommend Adavantage Sails (Mark Self) for any sail or canvas work.
 
I'm surprised and disappointed to hear your tale of woe. I've been buying sails from Dolphin for some years and generally been pleased with their service. There have been a few glitches, but these have been quickly and satisfactorily remedied.
I understand that they are now part of the Gowen/ Ocean / Oyster organisation, perhaps this has resulted in a loss of the individual attention.
Their website does say that all sails are manufactured locally, is this not so?
 
I always think it a sign of a 'proper sailors' boat' when the builders specify good sails, otherwise it's like trying to run a racing car on last years' lawnmower fuel !

The original Sadler yachts being a good example, supplying Westaway sails as standard, and it worked well for both parties as far as I can tell.

Partly for that reason, having observed and being impressed, I use Westaways on my boat, and must say I'm very happy, not the cheapest but I think the best value; a huge difference in those terms of course ( no connection or even discount sadly ).

If I'd paid for an Oyster and got tarpaulins as sails, the explosion would be visible from space !
 
My boat came with UK Syverson sails and very nice too.

Only problem was I couldn't find Syverson anywhere in the UK. Told recently that U and K are Mr Syverson's initials. Doh.
 
Dolphin Sails Appalled

Hi All.......I am not suggesting they can't make a good product ,what they appear to be is able to accept responsibility for there errors.

Who would want to take that chance.

In future not me,I have already gone else where for my spray hood and stack packs.I used KLS ( Keven Turner)of Canvey island and had a much better experience.
 
After reading of a number of sailmakers that had bad service and a number that just stuck their sticker onto far east sails I got a number of quotes for my Jeanneau43. I was also going to change to a fully battened main.

John Channon (IIRC ex MD of Hood Sails) came to boat discussed what I wanted and recommended best wt of cloth for a charter boat (Bainbridge). John has his sails made to his specification in the far east.

On delivery John personally fitted them to the boat with the fully battened main system.

I regret having to buy far east goods but price difference was simply too great to ignore.

Its the personal service of measuring boat, ascertaining exactly what the customer wants, discussing options and then fitting the sails that to me is the most important aspect and you should expect to pay for this service. If the measurements and specification is right any competent sail manufacturer should be able to make a satisfactory sail.

Where it goes wrong IMHO is when you try to get the cheapest quote (as I did) but just let the supplier make standard sails for your boat from their own data base without checking the actual dimensions or detailed discussion of options and agreed final specification in writing.
 
My experiences with Dolphin are sadly similar. Used to get good service and sails from them, but it all went wrong a couple of years ago when buying a new main and genoa. They came down to the boat and carefully measured everything up, and discussed certain features that I wanted to keep/change. They also took away my old sail as a comparison.

The delivered main had the wrong size slides, and had been cut with a very low booom, which fouled my sprayhood. The reefing points were not where I wanted them, and also suffered from the same boom droop as the full sail.

The foot was re-cut once by them, but it is still too low. The slides were changed and they work fine.

It is hard to see how they could have made these simple mistakes given that they had checked all these things on board, and had the old sail as a reference. Although they got the sail to a point that it was usable, sorting it out to this point was fairly tortuous, and in the end gave up pushing. It is a substantial amount of money, and such an important part of a yacht - it should be right. Every business makes mistakes every so often, but it is how you deal with them that really counts.
 
Must admit I'm shocked to hear several people say that this is not unusual service from a sailmaker! I also have to second the recommendation for wilkinsons, my experience with them was a world away from yours with dolphin.

Importantly there is no earthly reason why you should be expected to pay for whatever they have decided to build, however little resemblance it bears to what you requested. Under the Sale of Goods All goods must be as described; if you requested custom sails and they supplied to a standard plan then the goods are not as described and you are within your statutory rights to reject them and request a full refund. The difficulty may be proving that this is what you ordered, but if you have emails or order paperwork stating that the sails were to be custom that would help - as would the fact that they visited your boat to measure it. There is not a strict time limit to claim a refund, and if they try to claim that you had accepted the sails because you hd had them for some months, as you say you can refute this because you had not had an opportunity to fit them.

I would request a full refund informing them of your statutory rights (quick google on "sale of goods act" will get some handy wording) and that you will make a claim in the small claims court if it is not forthcoming. A second avenue worth pursuing is that if you paid for any part of the cost of the sails - even £1 - on your credit card then the card company is equally liable with the sailmaker so you could make a claim agains them under section 75 of the consumer credit act.

Good luck!
 
I have North as factory fitted on my Hanse 430e but the jib blew out in a violent storm so had to get a new one. Took the measurements myself, emailed them to a sail designer in Vancouver. He recommended fully battened (news to me on a jib) so I went with it. I got the sails made in China (he emailed the computer file direct to the factory). This sail is far superior to the original since it no longer has a vibrating leach thanks to the battens. IMO it would have been better for me to work with a local designer since I think the measuring and technical terms used are a bit daunting, but getting the sails from a low cost country works fine.
 
Sailfree said:
Where it goes wrong IMHO is when you try to get the cheapest quote (as I did) but just let the supplier make standard sails for your boat from their own data base without checking the actual dimensions or detailed discussion of options and agreed final specification in writing.
Click to expand...

That's the thing - I went for Dolphin at extra £££ as I wanted a local sailmaker and decent quality with performance and feature that I specified.


They also had my old sail, and failed to replicate that.

Did I mention that I specifically requested a delivery date of no later than October 2nd so that I could attend a sailing event. Come the day, they were clueless about where my order was, even denying they had promised anything. Guess what? No one in the office this week they said. They were all at the Oyster owners regatta in the Balaerics, so they knew damned well they weren't going to deliver my sails.
 
Channon Sails

I had a new main and mizzen from John Channon, for my Nic 39, excellent service and consulation during the purchasing process.
Really pleased with the sails, I don't know John in any other way than as a happy customer four years ago now.
 
Perhaps if more people bought local there would be a wider base of quality uk sailmakers but heythats economics folks, cheap is cheap right? Each to their own.
Same with Oyster group really, now owned by venture capitalists. So if you think their first priority is building you the very best they can even if it means sacrificing dividends , well Caveat Emptor.

Off the top of my head(!), 3 more home grown sailmakers that do good, Saunders Sails, Arun, Crusader in no particular order. Sadly this info is readily available in the forum archive to anyone who cares to look before ordering.

All IMO of course and condolences to both the OP and Full circle whose remarkable restraint in writing style is perfik! ....but the logo looks fantastic. Funny!
 
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I was thinking of getting my next sails from Wilkinson Sails, Faversham, but the problem is my boat is in the Solent.

I have always felt that a local sailmaker is best because if there's anything wrong you can get him to come and see it. Also if it's measured wrongly it's 'down to him'.

Or am I being over-cautious about measuring? Is this something I ought to be able to do myself?
 
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