Doing old grp boats up

Modern boats with lighter rig, sail drives, cored hulls, brass underwater fittings, mdf interiors etc ,Obviously not built to last but mainly because it's a lot cheaper to build.
Many are style over substance and you really don't want to be caught out in a storm in some of these vessels.
Select the right older boat and it will last you a long time.
Rebuilding can be done over a period of time reducing the financial hit and using quality parts.
There is another much more valid reason why rebuilding an older boat is far better than buying a newish ready to go boat though.
World's top sailors who have sailed crazy miles all seem to agree the single most important thing for a sailor to know - is his boat and how it all works.
You need to be a carpenter, engineer, plumber, electrician etc.
They say if your not then you need to learn or go with someone who is!
Now back to restoring a boat. You know where everything is, how it's put together and how to repair it.
Buy a newer boat and you have no idea how it all works.
 

But you do get to go sailing in the hellish modern contraption, rather than spend the next decade or two undoing 40 years of bodgery!
 
Yes fredrussell , that is true but some of us also get great enjoyment from restoring boats ?, a rolling restoration so to speak
 
When researching for a launch to replace our work boat to lay moorings we decided we needed something very stable that could be beached & had a reasonable engine. Tiller steered.
We toyed with the idea of getting a bilge keeler & cutting the lid off around the deck. Putting 2 timbers around the gunwhale clamped to a narrow piece of the remaining deck. with the deck in the middle. Removing all the accessories & flogging them, cooker winches mast etc. Cut out sections of the bulkhead & bunks & inserting a level raised through deck in plywood as a working platform
The bilge keels would give a good stable platform & it could be beached to pick up the sinkers at low water
We felt that we had the ability to get almost any old engine working but we could transfer the old air cooled one from the old launch if necessary
Some people would probably give us a boat to get rid of the cost of storage etc

In the end I managed to locate a lovely launch that does the job & needed some work that I did over the winter. Hence the idea was abandoned

But if one wanted a fishing launch i am sure one could adapt something for very low cost.
 
Rappey said:
Yes fredrussell , that is true but some of us also get great enjoyment from restoring boats ?, a rolling restoration so to speak
Click to expand...

The world seems to consist of two types. Those that enjoy the work for itself and those that can't abide it and want to get on the water. Whatever suits you. But plenty of refurbishers seem to get bogged down and give up.
 
Rappey said:
Buy a newer boat and you have no idea how it all works.
Click to expand...
You are just trying to justify buying an old boat. There is absolutely no reason not to know how a new boat works. I bought my current boat new & within a season I knew it inside & out. Everything was neat & tidy & laid out in a constructive manner. Hence every detail was plain to follow.

I suspect that if I were to buy a second hand one, I would take ages trying to sort out the alterations & bodges that past owners had carried out in the name of "doing a good job". When I bought the previous one for refurbishment the bodging was absolutely horrendous & in the end I had to strip it to a bare hull & re build it. But it had a lovely set of curtains :D

I keep reading about how owners like to do things themselves because then they know that they have been done correctly. But some of the carp that I have seen owners have done, makes it obvious that the majority of owners do not actually KNOW HOW to do a good job . Most of them thinking that what they have done is workmanlike. That being said some do some very good stuff with the limited tools at their disposal. It just takes them a long time :sleep:
 
Rappey said:
Modern boats with lighter rig, sail drives, cored hulls, brass underwater fittings, mdf interiors etc ,Obviously not built to last but mainly because it's a lot cheaper to build.
Click to expand...
My "modern" boat will last 40 years Ok, if looked after. How long does one expect, or actually WANT it to last these days?
All boats have interior trim, cookers, seating, heads,engines, masts sails, winches, rigging anchor winches, keels rudders, steering gear, electronics. These will wear out in similar time periods to earlier designs. Thus making the boat less attractive to further use. It is not just the hull & deck. What is wrong with saildrive? I like it. The package is easy to service & when renewal is required I expect it to go OK. One gets hassle with shaft drive systems, leaks, misalignment, seal wear, P bracket issues etc

My last Stella was 30 years old ( circa 1967) & full of rot & needed a total rebuild. All conventional construction. At the time several timber boats of 30/40 years were laying rotten in yards. So they were not so clever after all, were they? Leak like sieves.
if you tell me that there are lots of wooden boats that have lasted years I will counter that with the response that there are plenty of modern GRP up-market boats, that will last just as long & they have cored hulls or decks.

If you want to just look at GRP boats, some older designs are in a real state at 40 years. Just walk round the yards in this country & look at those with boat pox or windows & other leaks- enough said?

Nothing wrong with the majority of modern designs in my opinion. Some ringers, but there were a lot of bad old ones as well perhaps
 
Why go on about a old boat you had being a dog when I stated "find the right boat"?
The question about what boats have mdf ? if this is the first you have heard of it then your in for a shock.
As for sail drives v shafts I've heard it so many times it bores the carp out of me.
There are always boats out there from 32ft to 40ft that are well worth the time as major cost is labour, but if you can do it all yourself it's possible to end up with a beautiful and unique boat.
I started with a 21ft ply yacht, came with dingy and pile of absolute **** outboard. I could see it was basically solid boat, just a little minor repair and paint and it looked great.
Sold it after sailing it for a while, used the profits to buy a nicer boat needing tlc.
And this went on for many years and my knowledge grew.
Must have had some 30 different boats over the years.
27 years ago I bought a blue water yacht that lost its mast and rigging and at 6 years old was neglected in a yard and had filled with rain water.
Many of us like building things? I decided I wanted to build a yacht interior as the hull was perfectly sound.
I now sail this boat, or at least I did until current events changed that.
I enjoyed installing each item as finances permited,and learning how it works.
I can only imagine how overwhelming buying a new boat and learning about all its electronics in one hit it must be. A nice overwhelming to have though ?
Restoring a boat needs resourcefulness, lots of time searching ebay. Some great bargains can be had.
It's certainly something that needs serious commitment but for the few that accomplish this there is that intimate knowledge of every screw in your boat.
Not everyone can afford to buy a fully ready to go boat.
 
Caraway said:
...But plenty of refurbishers seem to get bogged down and give up.
Click to expand...

I'm writing a list of projects down, prioritizing, and tackling them one at a time. I'm also not doing anything so major that the boat won't see the water this year, either. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. I think that's what did Roger in... his restoration project screams "feature creep" to me. Too much all at once.

Daydream believer said:
But some of the carp that I have seen owners have done, makes it obvious that the majority of owners do not actually KNOW HOW to do a good job .
Click to expand...

There's a lot of similarities between farmers and sailors, mostly in that they've trying to fit into that "jack of all trades" role. I've seen some poorly maintained farm equipment, too. Luckily, the previous owner of my Centaur had some sort of clue. Got a feeling he wasn't a painter (sorely needs top & bottom paint), nor an electrician (some wire is run, but not much is actually hooked up). I'll be tracing out wiring, labeling runs, and creating circuit diagrams, before I actually start doing any electrical work on that. I have this feeling there may be a reason he left it mostly disconnected...
 
Rappey said:
The question about what boats have mdf ? if this is the first you have heard of it then your in for a shock.
Click to expand...
No it is not the first time that I have heard it. I am sure that they exist- You said it, so it must be true.
But i am like PVB on this one
I am still waiting to hear which boats in particular?
Tel us more. I am sure the forum would like a selection for the database please
Thanks (y)
 
The only thing stopping me is the dust. Every boat needing care is just a heap of angle grinding to me, and after 40+ years of building and maintaining them the merest whiff of dust gets me feeling sick and itchy. Shame, because I have to dismiss much I could easily do.
 
Daydream believer said:
No it is not the first time that I have heard it. I am sure that they exist- You said it, so it must be true
Click to expand...

If your going to be a sarcastic twat then you and your ignorance can f*** off and I won't be sharing my many years of also working in the marine industry with you.
 
Rappey said:
If your going to be a sarcastic twat then you and your ignorance can f*** off and I won't be sharing my many years of also working in the marine industry with you.
Click to expand...
Or you could chill out a bit, put people you don't agree with on ignore instead of barking back and make an effort to only post positive and friendly :)
Make the world a teensy weensy bit better. Because you can.
 
Rappey said:
If your going to be a sarcastic twat then you and your ignorance can f*** off and I won't be sharing my many years of also working in the marine industry with you.
Click to expand...
You were asked nicely to give further info on a statement you made.
I did not insult you or make offensive remarks
I just asked for info
I realised that you were knowledgeable in your field so it was obvious I would ask you
What is wrong with that?
 
I said it so it must be true? You could have chatted in a friendly manner rather than try to ridicule me.
OK, let's move on and start at the top - super yachts, sunseeker. Look under all that beautifully finished wood and you will see its actually veneer over mdf. Has been for a very long time.
I'm jelous as hell of these new 40 odd foot yachts that can do 9 knts in 6 knts of wind with their beautiful interiors.
They are great for weekend sailors and marina hoppers and if you only keep them for say less than 10 years you should not have many problems .
But many manufacturers have cut a lot of corners and costs. Ferrous hinges and drawer mechanisms, plastic and steel catches, same as in caravans, whatever happened to brass and stainless ? Rudders that have no skeg support so they are a lot more prone to snap off due to fatige, grp rudder stocks. Seen and heard of Many sail drives getting destroyed by corrosion , get a chip in its protective coating and the aluminium reacts badly, vunerability to impact. Having to remove engine every 5 years to replace rubber seal. Foam and balsa cores where after many years water has got in and caused no end of very expensive problems. Winches with plastic parts. Hull to deck joints ever more reliant on silicon and screws rather than bolted and glassed, same with interior joints. The width of some of these join lines is surely bad design or craftmanship.
Eu regs allowing brass and plastic skin fittings on new boats needing changing max 5 years.That would never happen on a boat built to lloyds spec.
All done because it's cheaper, style over substance.
This certainly does not apply to every new boat though.
We could probably debate each issue I've mentioned but it's probably easier to Google to see proof or watch the many youtube vids of the amount of people having to tackle these issues.
Therefore avoiding all of the above by restoring a older solid built cruising boat for long term ownership can have its advantages, but it needs to be the right boat or can end up being a costly disaster.
 
Last edited:
Rappey said:
I said it so it must be true? You could have chatted in a friendly manner rather than try to ridicule me.
OK, let's move on and start at the top - super yachts, sunseeker. Look under all that beautifully finished wood and you will see its actually veneer over mdf. Has been for a very long time.
Click to expand...
Ok it was a little wind up :unsure:
But you have referred to Sunseekers & I hardly think that counts in the grand scheme of things. Still not given an example of an "every day 2 design:cry:

As for the other items the things you mention have been going on for years. I am more than happy that my Harken 2 speed self tailing winches are far better than the crappy Gibb, Barton, Viking (Try those for rubbish I still have 2 in my shed)
Re shaft drives. Both my Stellas & my current launch leaked continuously round the seals. So much for £ 300 for the seal. plus an extra for the bearings that are knackered. I would have loved to just spend a day every 7 years like I do now with my saildrive
There are owners in our club who have been repairing hull to deck joints on old boats for years with limited success. My current boat has been hammered hard for 16 years - I am on my 3rd mainsail & 5th jib, second set of rigging- but there is not one single leak & EVERYTHING works except electrics which I have upgraded because I just wanted better anyway- Oh and the b..y useless autopilots = 5 to date.

So when one knocks newer yachts I say that they are significantly better than anything produced years ago. Always compare like with like ie expensive brands of the day with expensive brands of yester year. Plus I can leave the majority of older 31 ft designs for dead in In a blow as well as light winds. One just adapts ones sailing style to the boat
As for light designs being a new trend, I can tell you the tale of one of the first Robbers capsizing in the Crouch & the crew standing on the keel to get it up-- so much for solid early designs!!!!!!! Lightweight is a new concept? - could not get much lighter than a Hydro!! so there are 2 examples.

Still, we will always differ. That is what makes life interesting. It is how you deal with it that matters:D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top