Doing old grp boats up

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Wansworth

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As it was after the war there were lots of ships.ife boats lying around in yards and fore sale thro the MOD these gave pecunious sailers an opportunityto get a sea worthy hull and make it into a yacht or fishing boat,whatever.Theses days there are lurking in yards beat up,forgotten grp boats that with some work can be got going even modified with the use of an angle grinder a Macwester 26. Could have a wheelhouse,my favourite
plan!With Grp alterations can be wrought and a seaworthy boat with a touch of distinction and a change from the same old marina queen!
 
It used to be viable - a pal of mine used to make a reasonable living from buying old boats, doing them up, and then selling them on - up until about 20 years ago when he realised it was just not worth it anymore.
And up until then, if you had bought a reasonably popular boat for say 10k (currency irrelevant), and looked after it well for 10 years, it would then be reasonable to ask 10k for it if you wanted to sell it.
But no more.

I remember the going price for a second hand Westerly Centaur 25 / 30 years ago was around GBP 12,000, for a 15 - 20 year old boat.
Nowadays they seem to be selling for MUCH less (around GBP 3 - 4,000?)
Remember that you will invariably have to buy new materials (you can't buy 'secondhand fibreglass mat and resin too easily!) and equipment, and this all pushes the price up enormously, yet does virtually nothing to the value.

So, boats are becoming like cars it seems (re depreciation) as more and more new boats come on the scene, helping to push down the values of the older second hand boats (because people usually want to buy the newer ones instead).
I have seen some boats recently which (like cars) would have more value in bits if they were broken up (but this is assuming that a buyer can be found for a mast, sails, engine etc......) rather than as a whole unit.

Scrapping a boat used to be considered to be sacrilege but nowadays it has to be considered with many boats - if nobody wants it, it effectively has no value.
 
Scrapping a boat used to be considered to be sacrilege but nowadays it has to be considered with many boats - if nobody wants it, it effectively has no value.
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Yes, this is something that the whole sailing community in the UK has to come to terms with. We need to start scrapping old boats on an industrial scale. There is no longer a buyer for every boat whatever the price.
 
I have looked at boats that 'just need a bit of TLC' and in every case all I see is days spent with the angle grinder dressing down the remains of the interior fit. Even with a mask on the first whiff of GRP dust makes me feel ill, plus all the itching. I'm probably sensitised from the FVs I built. Life's too short, boats are cheap. Wood's OK.....
 
Wansworth said:
You have no soul!
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I do. FWIW I (now) rather foolishly took on my late fathers Centaur in 2008 and the projects still going and at the time of typing i'm about £20K in the hole for materials for a boat that when all is said and done will be worth about £8-9K. Trust me you don't wanna project, not when there's so many boats out there that don't need work and as mentioned above aren't worth anything.

The markets full of boats that even if they were given away are still too dear.........................click on my signature below if you're still unsure
 
Wansworth said:
As it was after the war there were lots of ships.ife boats lying around in yards and fore sale thro the MOD these gave pecunious sailers an opportunityto get a sea worthy hull and make it into a yacht or fishing boat,whatever.Theses days there are lurking in yards beat up,forgotten grp boats that with some work can be got going even modified with the use of an angle grinder a Macwester 26. Could have a wheelhouse,my favourite
plan!With Grp alterations can be wrought and a seaworthy boat with a touch of distinction and a change from the same old marina queen!
Click to expand...


It's a time hallowed method for getting the boat you want or indeed any boat at all. Plus all the huggy virtues of being fashionable, as directed to us by the pie faced Scandinavian girl.
The trick is to buy the right boat and avoid at all costs anything called a "project". :- )
 
Where to keep it while you work on it without it costing a fortune before you even start the work. Increasingly smaller, older boats are being given away so if you've a big garden or WHY...
 
Where to keep it while you work on it without it costing a fortune before you even start the work.
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This is one of the reasons the DIY new build, or finishing factory built kits, died in the UK. Land is scarce and using someone elses (especially with a workshop) is expensive.

The converse of this, is in the States where lots of people have a 'yard' big enough to have a project underway for decades without incurring either the wrath of the neighbours or undue expense. But even there, work on 'projects' has declined steadily in the last twenty five years because for a fraction of the cost of a refurb project or new build, you can buy a perfectly acceptable fully functioning secondhand boat.
 
guardian said:
I do. FWIW I (now) rather foolishly took on my late fathers Centaur in 2008 and the projects still going and at the time of typing i'm about £20K in the hole for materials for a boat that when all is said and done will be worth about £8-9K. Trust me you don't wanna project, not when there's so many boats out there that don't need work and as mentioned above aren't worth anything.

The markets full of boats that even if they were given away are still too dear.........................click on my signature below if you're still unsure
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OK, I clicked on your signature. I was already convinced of the truth of your statement that "you don't wanna project". But I wasn't really prepared for the details and photos on your blog. I've just spent an hour or so looking through them, and I have to say I'm totally in awe of what you've achieved. Your thoughtfulness, imagination, planning, ingenuity, accuracy, attention to detail, and sheer persistence are unbelievably inspiring. Sure, it makes no sense economically. But you've achieved something quite unique, and you'll end up with the world's best Centaur. Your father would be proud.
 
V1701 said:
Where to keep it while you work on it without it costing a fortune before you even start the work. Increasingly smaller, older boats are being given away so if you've a big garden or WHY...
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Yes, you must keep it in the boatyard. Anything that can't be launched and used, in some fashion, the coming season is a "project" and under the iron terms of my rule is disbarred.
 
pvb said:
OK, I clicked on your signature. I was already convinced of the truth of your statement that "you don't wanna project". But I wasn't really prepared for the details and photos on your blog. I've just spent an hour or so looking through them, and I have to say I'm totally in awe of what you've achieved. Your thoughtfulness, imagination, planning, ingenuity, accuracy, attention to detail, and sheer persistence are unbelievably inspiring. Sure, it makes no sense economically. But you've achieved something quite unique, and you'll end up with the world's best Centaur. Your father would be proud.
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Cheers, but to quote Cher, if i could turn back time.....................................
 
Ok but take the money out of the equation,you get an old boat then little by little you fettle it making it just as you want it.If it gives you pleasure and you get a seaworthy craft why not?Obviously there are costs maybe a yard storage etc but it will give you something to do in your spare time maintaining the dream of sailing off down the creek.No everything has to have a value,most of the things we most value are priceless!Saw your site,way out of my league and I guess I can see your point Guardian!
 
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Wansworth said:
Ok but take the money out of the equation,you get an old boat then little by little you fettle it making it just as you want it.If it gives you pleasure and you get a seaworthy craft why not?Obviously there are costs maybe a yard storage etc but it will give you something to do in your spare time maintaining the dream of sailing off down the creek.No everything has to have a value,most of the things we most value are priceless!
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Indeed.
I think he money is a red herring.

Buy any boat and it won't be worth what you paid for it. The worst case is buying a new one which can lose 20% in the first year and 5% pa thereafter; with even a modest boat this could be 30k plus 7k per season.
Some folk have lots of time and no money, others lots of money and no time; the latter group are blessed but busy, the former can buy old boats and use their time and skills to get on the water.

If you are skint you buy what you can out of capital and improve matters out of income. It's a sort of hire purchase plan without the interest and fees.
The question "Why did he not just buy the best boat for an extra 20 grand?" does not arise. It's the sort of question thought up by the well breeched.


.
 
guardian said:
Cheers, but to quote Cher, if i could turn back time.....................................
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What an amazing restoration, I take.my hat off to you - way beyond my skills. Such a shame there isn't a market for classic yachts like there is for classic cars. I toyed with the idea of tracking down my dads first boat to see if it could be restored ... but I'll take your advice and just stick with my trusty AWB. Good luck and I hope you find the inspiration (and money) to finish her.
 
doug748 said:
Indeed.
I think he money is a red herring.

Buy any boat and it won't be worth what you paid for it. The worst case is buying a new one which can lose 20% in the first year and 5% pa thereafter; with even a modest boat this could be 30k plus 7k per season.
Some folk have lots of time and no money, others lots of money and no time; the latter group are blessed but busy, the former can buy old boats and use their time and skills to get on the water.

If you are skint you buy what you can out of capital and improve matters out of income. It's a sort of hire purchase plan without the interest and fees.
The question "Why did he not just buy the best boat for an extra 20 grand?" does not arise. It's the sort of question thought up by the well breeched.


.
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I like the “capital and income” bit........sounds like Mr Macawber!
 
I agree with pvb and Baggy absolutely re Roger's amazing Centaur restoration.
But boat restoration is a bit like gambling - once you get into it, you cannot stop, because you have already thrown so much money into the project, and you are always thinking that your win will happen soon (ie the end will be in sight soon) - but it invariably stays just out of reach, perhaps forever.

The motor boat equivalent on the Mobo Forum must be the boats restored by Waynes World - the first was a very knackered Buckingham 20 motor cruiser, affectionately called the Plant Pot. Here is a link.
Buckingham 20 restoration, formerly Plant Pot
Wayne admits that it makes no financial sense whatsoever restoring boats to a high standard - but he enjoys doing it, and (perhaps most importantly) his wife approves.
So much so that he has now embarked on a much more ambitious project to restore a Norman 32 motor cruiser - in fact he also is lengthening her.
Project OBD!!!!!!! ( Norman 32 refurb )
 
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