Does white diesel result in better mpg than red?

[Momac]

A friend claims his JCB consumes less fuel for a days work if run on white diesel compared to red. As much as 50% saving in the volume of fuel .

Is there any thoughts on this when applied to boats . Is white diesel potentially more economical than red even though it may cost more per litre.

 

[maby]

I doubt that there is any detectable difference - certainly not the 50% that your friend claims. Any difference in composition is very small.

 

[kashurst]

A friend claims his JCB consumes less fuel for a days work if run on white diesel compared to red. As much as 50% saving in the volume of fuel .

Is there any thoughts on this when applied to boats . Is white diesel potentially more economical than red even though it may cost more per litre.

I suspect your friend has been either sniffing the stuff or he's been on the laughing water. It's basically the same. The only difference I noticed going from red diesel to normal when I moved a boat to the med, was the engines seemed to run smoother - but it could have been my imagination.

Edit - where is he getting his red diesel - is it some knock off parafin or dodgy heating oil?

 

[Momac]

Edit - where is he getting his red diesel - is it some knock off parafin or dodgy heating oil?

I doubt he would use the wrong fuel in his own machine and has had a small scale plant hire business many years. He says the machine ran 2 days on a tank of white diesel after running one day on a tank of red in similar circumstances.

I did think red was simply white with dye added.

Do boats in the mainland EU, which run on white , get better fuel economy?

 

[BruceK]

The difference between Red and white is more pronounced now with emission controls. White will have lower sulpher content and a higher cetane rating so one cannot argue it is a better fuel, however whether that makes much difference to your boat engine is arguable and the offset is no where near enough to account for your friends claims. In a car it may make the difference of 1mpg at a push. The addition of some of your diesel bug concoctions Marine 16 etc also improve your fuel's cetane rating. Did you notice any difference?

 

[IDAMAY]

Having spent much time in various continental countries that only dispense white diesel I can say that it makes no difference at all. This is based on careful fuel consumption monitoring. I can confirm that the biggest cause of variation in consumption is the amount of "loud pedal" used.

 

[Momac]

Having spent much time in various continental countries that only dispense white diesel I can say that it makes no difference at all.

I thought there might be some benefit but it seems not.

 

[Momac]

The addition of some of your diesel bug concoctions Marine 16 etc also improve your fuel's cetane rating. Did you notice any difference?

From Marine 16 diesel fuel complete slight improvement in engine smoothness when running slow on the river and possible reduced smoke but nothing dramatic as the engines were running well enough anyway. No noticeable fuel economy benefit but other factors such as sea state seem to dominate.

 

[Assassin]

No difference at all as it is exactly the same fuel which has different stains (red or white) in it to readily identify it as taxed or non taxed, you are more likely to get differences between different brands.

As Bruce has already mentioned, any additives he has added will make a difference.

 

[Assassin]

A friend claims his JCB consumes less fuel for a days work if run on white diesel compared to red. As much as 50% saving in the volume of fuel .

Is there any thoughts on this when applied to boats . Is white diesel potentially more economical than red even though it may cost more per litre.

I would have him drugs tested if he is seriously making these claims as even the worst contaminated fuels will not drop 50% in efficiency.

 

[BruceK]

From Marine 16 diesel fuel complete slight improvement in engine smoothness when running slow on the river and possible reduced smoke but nothing dramatic as the engines were running well enough anyway. No noticeable fuel economy benefit but other factors such as sea state seem to dominate.

Well then you have your answer. I would say your mate added a zero for effect. 5% more efficient possibly, 50% no chance

 

[Jim@sea]

After owning JCB's and tractors for 30 years I suspect that when he puts white diesel in his JCB because its twice the price he sets the revs slightly lower and a small reduction in revs can reduce the consumption by 40%

 

[BruceK]

Not so different to boats then

 

[Seastoke]

Not so different to boats then

JCB,s don’t float

 

[BruceK]

JCB,s don’t float

Your old tractor did?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

A friend claims his JCB consumes less fuel for a days work if run on white diesel compared to red. As much as 50% saving in the volume of fuel .

I have worked in the construction machinery industry for more than 30yrs and I have never heard that. With the relentless focus on reducing costs of operation you would think everybody in construction would be using white diesel if that were true but they're not

 

[Spare Thyme]

The Cetane number for the fuel will effect the overall consumption, a higher Cetane number will give you better fuel burn,easier cold starting etc, the Cetane number for red Diesel can be variable, however white Diesel is more controlled, typically above 50, red Diesel or DERV is usually 46 but can be as low as 32, however I would doubt that in your average marine Diesel you would see much of a difference other than cold start performance. Worth checking out your specific engine recommended Cetane numbers, Cats (my old mechanical 3126’s) are very good, anything from 32 upwards, more modern common rail types tend to have a minimum Cetane of 48. Remember Diesels are governed, so they will throw fuel in to meet the demand, however unlikely with the range of Cetane you are likely to get that you can see double the range between white (premium) and rough red DERV. Also worth noting red and white suppliers add Cetane improvers in winter to aid cold starting, so worth buying in winter

 

[Hurricane]

From Marine 16 diesel fuel complete slight improvement in engine smoothness when running slow on the river and possible reduced smoke but nothing dramatic as the engines were running well enough anyway. No noticeable fuel economy benefit but other factors such as sea state seem to dominate.

I used the Marine 16 Complete once.
It was mainly to flush my system after the bug attack.
We left Marine 16 Complete in the tanks over the winter
The following season, we did notice a small improvement in fuel burn - not enough to continue using it though.
And that was the first season after Coppercoat so who knows what the difference was down to - not enough anyway.

That said, I was once given a small amount of diesel additive from a guy who ran a fleet of lorries.
He suggested that I should try the additive.
I didn't put it in the boat.
Instead, I put it in our Land Cruiser and did a test.
First we topped the tanks here in Devon with normal white diesel.
And drove to Reading.
Then we topped the tanks and added the additive.
We the drove back to Devon and topped the tank again.
The subsequent calcs showed just under 10% better consumption with the additive than without the additive.
The driving was similar.
I didn't do any other comparisons and haven't used it again.
The guy who gave it to me sweared that he got a 14% improvement.
I think that the fuel supplies from different companies could make a difference so I wasn't convinced.
I haven't used it again.

Anyway, it is downhill from Reading to Devon isn't it!!

 

[Bandit]

Pure white automotive diesel as you would buy from a garage forecourt is a higher quality fuel than Marine Gas oil that is often supplied to marine fuel outlets.

Modern common rail engines sense the quality of the fuel and burn it to accommodate the quality to produce the same HP, older engines cant tell the difference.

An older engine such as a KAD 300 would produce 300hp with automotive diesel and 285hp with marine gas oil.

The same fuel dyed red producing 50% less power is bunkum, there will be no noticeable difference if dye is added or not.

 

[Hillbilly]

HI All,

My main business is selling MGO and HFO to the commercial shipping world. while I agree with the sentiment that performance difference between Automotive diesel and dyed MGO is minimal (+/- 5-8% once additives and varying treatments and machinery used to burn the fuel taken into account) there are a few side notes things to be aware of in the differences between the two. The majority of Dyed MGO that finds its way into the tanks of our leisure boats is 1000ppm sulphur content. Compare that to Automotive at 10ppm, and you quickly realise the product we burn on our leisure boats (with our nearest and dearest around breathing it in) is far more harmful than what you put into your diesel car at home, which even at 10PPM is considered to be harmful to the environment and very toxic. Thats a 100x increase in sulphur emissions on our leisure boats compared to our cars. MGO is also generally laying in various storage tanks for longer, is more contaminated with sediment and water than automotive diesel (by quite some margin), and while diesel doesn't deteriorate at the rate of petrol, still loses aromatic (CCAI) and combustion properties over time. Depending on the time of year, MGO can also have horrendous cold properties, with wax formations (cloud point) happening at temps significantly above zero, causing filtration blockages, due to high waxy paraffin content (which actually has great combustion properties, when warm). MGO for use in commercial ships, which has found its way into the leisure industry, is actually designed to be treated on board before combustion, by additional purification (gravity plate centrifugal filtration) and heating where necessary. Our leisure boats are not actually equipped to handle MGO well at all. It is also worth factoring in the SG (Specific Gravity) of Automotive can be around 0.82 compared to MGO at 0.89. quite a difference in large volumes, and often changes the way the fuel can be handled / consumed by more sensitive diesel equipment.

The one overriding benefit of MGO over automotive, is the fact it is FAME (fatty acid) free, with less than trace BIO content, unlike the automotive product which often contains around 8% Bio product, significantly shortening the useful life of the fuel, unless treated with biocide and stabiliser, and meaning less risk to leisure users storing MGO for long periods over winter layups, for example.

It is quite possible, running a modern diesel with a particularly bad batch of MGO, versus automotive grade, given the right operating conditions, could result in a significant performance delta, maybe in the region of 25% in best to worse case examples.

Hope the above helps.