Does the Age of a GRP sailing boat Matter

[mikegold]

Age

I have another 1967 Tyler hull with no problems the general condition of the rest is good but tired otherwise I see it going on another 30/40 years

 

[jason -and the arguenauts]

Thanks, I think I may be worrying about age when really its only a small consideration

No - age matters but its the age of the equipment rather than juts the hull. Engines dont last but neither do masts or booms or windlasses or rigging or interior woodwork or toilets oe iundeed everything on the boat.

You can get an awful lot done to the hull for £4k. Wouldnt buy a new engine for most boats, nor a new mast.

 

[Tranona]

I am one of those rare people who has had the same boat for 30 years! It happens to be wood - but "modern" for 1963 sheathed ply. The hull is as good as the day it was built and the rest of it is right up there, but with more work to keep rot at bay. Only two small patches on the coacroof this year. The mast is the original hollow Douglas fir - again like new. But it has had a new engine, new sails and interior refit, new winches and so on as well as a total rewire. The secret is never to let anybody else touch your boat unless it really is beyond your skills or a horrible job like replacing headlinings. Fix everything as soon as it goes wrong and cover it up in the winter. I leave her in the water all year round and just have a week or two out in June when painting etc is a pleasure.

The second part of the question is can one boat satisfy you over your whole life. Not sure it can. We are fortunate because when we decided we liked sailing in the med (particularly SWMBO) we bought and still have a boat there. Did not sell Tranona because once we have finished the "big adventure" I will go back to pottering around Poole harbour and the Solent. Tranona would be my choice for that anyway so should see me out.

As to buying an MAB - if you like that style and buy well, no reason why it should not last. I don't however agree that newer "lighter built" boats will not last as well. Pretty sure my Bavaria will last equally well with the same kind of care - probably better because it is better designed and built. After 9 years, 7 on charter nothing significant has gone wrong. Willl, however need similar regular replacements just the same as an older boat.

 

[oldharry]

Built circa 60 in solid GRP to wood scantlings, so now around 50 years old, and going strong. Rig is much newer of course. So no - age does not matter.

One of the first ever production GRP hulls, a Classic 19, 19 feet long and weighing nearly 2 tons! No trailer sailer, this one, but a lovely solid little seaboat. I sold her on a few years ago, but she is still going strong, along with two of her sisters here in Chi Harbour.

 

[fergie_mac66]

westerly 22

We have a westerly 22 . built in 1961 . Built like a tank . nearly 2 tons .When the flap wheel was put in the hull is Fibreglass more than 3/4 of an inch thick! no sign of osmosis and still and I see no reason for it to not last another 50 years ! We also have a Catalac that 30 years old no osmosis again I see no reason for it not to last the same length of time . I wouldnt be so sure of many more newer boats.

 

[Avocet]

There's still plenty that could go wrong with an old GRP hull! Avocet is 37 years old and currently out of the water whilst I painstakingly replace all the gelcoat on her topsides. Don't really know why - she's laid up very thick and the laminate is sound but the hull seems to have suffered some sort of ultraviolet degradation and it's all cracked and flaking off! Below the waterline, she's fine. No osmosis. The grey pigmented decks are OK too. Clearly that's a one-off but it's not an easy job!

Other things that can go wrong with plastic boats:

1. Sandwich construction (as already mentioned) can separate and (worse) get water between the skins. Not easy to fix properly!

2. Osmosis (everyone's mentioned that)!

3. Stiffeners. As OldsaltOz says, sooner or later, the fibreglass delaminates from the ply OR they get water in them and you sail around for years not realising that you've actually got a hollow grp "box section", the inside of which used to be full of plywood! Avocet's stiffener under the mast heel was rotten enough to be scooped out with a teaspoon! I only realised when I noticed cracks appearing in the deck around the mast heel and a slight hollow in the fibreglass.

4. Any kind of moulded grip pattern on decks will wear away one day and is nigh-impossible to fix to the original standards.

5. Sooner or later, you'll end up having to re-gel or paint.

6. By the time you're 60, even if you still love the boat, some of these jobs will look infinitely less appealing that they do to a young and energetic chap! It might not be such a bad idea to pass the boat on to someone else and get another one!

7. Matching pigmented gelcoat for repairs isn't at all easy as the boat gets older because the new gel, even if it's a perfect match, will fade at a different rate to the rest of the hull.

8. One of the nice things about an older boat is that there will be less "mass-produced" stuff on her, so refitting won't be as hard as on a boat where you just wouldn't be able to re-make (say) a window frame to the original specification without spending an awful lot of money.

All this sounds like I have a real downer on plastic boats - I don't! I've never owned a metal or wooden boat and I'm sure they all have their advantages and drawbacks! There is, however, a tendency to think of GRP as immortal - which I'd caution against!

 

[David_Jersey]

Even as a 40 year old boat owner this has been an interesting thread

One category of older boat not mentioned is those who have had a major mid life refit - after 25 years or so..........most boats are not perfect in design and build, but for example where a mast support has sagged (after 25 years!) and has been fixed properly - then now stronger / better than the original if the source of weakness is also addressed........the advantage one has with an older boat is that problems (& fixes) are known and with 25+ years of "road testing" the owner can know what worked in the original build and desgn - and what didn't........so fixes can last longer than the original.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

There used to be a saying that you need an extra foot of length for every year of life! I can't afford a 146 ft.boat(!), but SWMBO and I have gone from 32 to 37 ft. recently on account of increasing age. It's the bending to do the internal maintenance, the sqeezing into lockers, the crawling by each other in a narrow cabin and the restricted headroom that begins to take the pleasure away from a boat that seemed huge 16 years ago(in our case). I don't think a boat for life is a realistic concept for you. Go for what suits you now and be prepared to change later, usually just as youve got the previous boat right!

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

"Does the Age of a GRP sailing boat Matter".
Not so much if you are looking at hulls built in the 80's or before and fitted out by reputable yards. Look out for dodgy homebuild, of which there are many..... some however very good.
If it was Camper Nicholson hull,make sure the survey is thorough concerning osmosis as these hulls seem prone to it. Nicholsons are reputedly superb yachts though so don't be put off by this.

Tylers moulds are fairly bombproof with few instances of osmosis as far as I can make out.
I found this snippet of info' regarding Tylers........
Tyler Boat Co. Limited
"Edward (Eddie) Tyler……by 1946 he was a successful builder and had begun using fibreglass to make moulds for concrete panels for prefabricated houses. One thing lead to another and he decided this material would be excellent for waterproofing boat decks - especially as his Cooya was now aging somewhat. After proving his theory, Edward Tyler later founded the Tyler Boat Company, building the first ever fibreglass production yacht, Glass Slipper a Van de Stadt design."
(I believe there may have been a fire when many moulds were lost.)
"After 1978 with their roots in construction they refocused on an industrial property management company called Tyler Holdings. Despite the long gap, and despite the fact that they have no connection with boats now, Michael Vanns of Tyler Holdings has been very helpful in filling in some gaps about the history of our boats. Many moulds were transferred to the Tufglas in 1974".

 

[Sea badger]

Even as a 40 year old boat owner this has been an interesting thread

One category of older boat not mentioned is those who have had a major mid life refit - after 25 years or so..........most boats are not perfect in design and build, but for example where a mast support has sagged (after 25 years!) and has been fixed properly - then now stronger / better than the original if the source of weakness is also addressed........the advantage one has with an older boat is that problems (& fixes) are known and with 25+ years of "road testing" the owner can know what worked in the original build and desgn - and what didn't........so fixes can last longer than the original.

this is a good point and one that I have noticed on several boats that i have viewed

many thanks

 

[Ubergeekian]

Bearing in mind my want of a boat for life and say I expect to be still sailing well into my sixties, is it realistic to expect the boat to be structurally sound when its 60 years old? Assuming that I look after it during that time. Or will I be faced with ever increasing costs of keeping it in a functional state?

I'm not a materials engineer, but I do know that most things degrade overtime.

I am a materials engineer, some of the time! You've had lots of good replies already, so I'll keep it fairly short. If the fibreglass has been competently done it should be damn nearly everlasting. That's in the bulk: bad attachment of fittings and other stress concentrations may cause local damage which should be repairable - if you can get to it.

I wouldn't be too worried about osmosis myself. It earns a lot of money for surveyors and boatyards, but I have yet to hear of a yacht sinking from it. I would be a lot more worried about a poorly done balsa sandwich ... if water gets into the balsa and it starts rotting you are doomed.

The first mass produced GRP glider was the Bolkow Phoebus, produced from 1957. Since then there have been only two airworthiness directives for them (in 1975 and 1976), both about metal control system parts. The structures have been very carefully examined over half a century of use with no significant issues turning up. Like early GRP boats, the Phoebus is very heavily made.

 

[Bobobolinsky]

I have one of the first three commercial grp boats built in South Africa.
Built in 1968 the constructors must have said "How Strong is this stuff?" "I don't know just add a few more laminations to be sure" It's 20mm thick over most of the hull. It was not antifouled for twenty years and just left in heavy fouling water. Result a few barnacle nibbles of the gel coat but otherwise sound. Topsides was painted with masonry paint and most folk thought it was ferro

Robin

 

[Rickm505]

...... We also have a Catalac that 30 years old no osmosis again I see no reason for it not to last the same length of time . I wouldnt be so sure of many more newer boats.

To my knowledge of Catalacs in the Americas, none have had fiberglass failures.

From what I've read, the layups on all fiberglass boats are sound until subject to excessive stress, such as hull flexing. This damages the actual glass fibers and weakens the layups, which eventually will fail. So a rigid boat might outlive any of us, and a flexible boat, like a racer, not so much.

 

[Badger]

From one Badger to another

Sea Badger, I am with Barncale 1e. It's not the age of the boat or it's longevity you need to worry about, it's yours ! I also have a boat for life. I had the full International Yacht paint epoxy and Hot Vac hull treatment. Brilliant. She is being fully restored by me over the winter. She will definitely be here when I am gone ! So in answer to you question, age of the boat is no problem

 

[Seanick]

Built circa 60 in solid GRP to wood scantlings, so now around 50 years old, and going strong. Rig is much newer of course. So no - age does not matter.

One of the first ever production GRP hulls, a Classic 19, 19 feet long and weighing nearly 2 tons! No trailer sailer, this one, but a lovely solid little seaboat. I sold her on a few years ago, but she is still going strong, along with two of her sisters here in Chi Harbour.

Wow, a bit of Chi harbour I have yet to find!!



Possibliy Lulworth?

 

[oldharry]

Si Senor, Bahia El Lulworth.

 

[LadyInBed]

Osmosis seems more prevalent on the south coast where the water is warmer and boats have a longer season.

The answer to this is to lay it up in your garden and never, NEVER put it near any water!

Mine has been in the water for nine years now so it must have osmosis, but what the hell! I get to use it when I want to summer and winter.
If I tot up 9x lift out / in and winter storage ashore then the saving will have paid for osmosis treatment, but I don't intend to even consider it for several years yet.

PS: it gets dried out for a tide on a slip each year for a scrub.

 

[30boat]

My Westerly Fulmar is 29 years old and, maybe because it is the first one, was built like a brick.It is considerably stiffer than others I've seen so I imagine it'll last forever.However I've seen many Jeanneaus, Beneteaus and Dufours of the same age that are still going strong despite being more lightly built.That says that fiberglass is pretty tough stuff that doesn't have to be enormously thick in order to last.As others have said,as long as it is well maintained a GRP boat should go on and on.

 

[onenyala]

37 and counting. Had osmosis for probably 25 years and still afloat !

 

[oldharry]

I was just wondering why the OP is so certain that the first boat he finds is going to be the 'right' one long term.

We all know there is no such thing as the 'perfect boat' - they all have their drawbacks, and compromise on their acceptability to individual owners.

I have spent the last 50 years looking for the 'right' boat - usually changing every three to five years. Some that looked on the hard to be just right proved quickly not to be, while others I bought with some misgivings proved to be excellent.

In any case the kind of boat I look for nowadays as a near-pensioner is very different to the sort of speed machine I wanted as a youngster. Then a family arrived, speed machines went out in favour of caravan style accomodation (and in one case caravan style sailing perfomance too - 'blew along' nicely, but... ). Now as a 'slightly less energetic' sailor, I want neither a hairy speed machine, nor a caravan (got one in the garden anyway!), but looked for (and found) a good cruising boat with a reasonable turn of speed, safe and sea kindly if things get a bit out of hand out there. Would never have done 40 years ago!

Of course there are those of us who have boats - usually wooden 'classics' (and I am not going into that argument) - which have been handed down from generation to generation. But I guarantee the younger members of the family although remaining loyal to 'Dads Boat' at times hankered after something a bit faster and racier!

So, is OP actually right in trying to find a boat for long term use this early in his sailing career?