firstboat
New member
If I see one or two blisters - should I refuse to buy the affected boat ?
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Does osmosis matter ?
- Thread starter firstboat
- Start date
Deep_6
New member
If I see one or two blisters - should I refuse to buy the affected boat ?
No - but it will need further investigation / treatment - a condition survey should point the way ahead.
Your offer should reflect that you may have to fork out approximately £120 per foot for osmosis treatment if osmosis is the problem
The blisters could be the result of other factors
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No - but it will need further investigation / treatment - a condition survey should point the way ahead.
Your offer should reflect that you may have to fork out approximately £120 per foot for osmosis treatment if osmosis is the problem
The blisters could be the result of other factors
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poter
Active member
No not necessarily.
It is probably not Osmosis, but what is the boat sail or power? also age? Has it been out of the water for a long time?
From what you saying it does not sound too bad, but look here for lots of information on the subject:
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/
If the boat is out of the water, & you are looking at it seriously, definitely get a surveyor to go over it for you, and make this a condition of the purchase. Nearly all reputable brokers will allow this once a deposit is put down, but check first.
If not - walk away.
poter.
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Just a thought does the broker/vendor have a recent survey report for you to look at??<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by poter on 03/01/2004 20:28 (server time).</FONT></P>
It is probably not Osmosis, but what is the boat sail or power? also age? Has it been out of the water for a long time?
From what you saying it does not sound too bad, but look here for lots of information on the subject:
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/
If the boat is out of the water, & you are looking at it seriously, definitely get a surveyor to go over it for you, and make this a condition of the purchase. Nearly all reputable brokers will allow this once a deposit is put down, but check first.
If not - walk away.
poter.
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Just a thought does the broker/vendor have a recent survey report for you to look at??<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by poter on 03/01/2004 20:28 (server time).</FONT></P>
G
Guest
Guest
a) What is the boat ?
b) Is it your observation that found them or a surveyor etc. ?
c) What is the age of the boat ?
Now weigh up the pro's and cons of the boat, its price etc.
Decide whether you want to have a surveyor check her over and then priced up for the work - if advised.
A submission to the seller that a reduction be made against ....... NOT his price, BUT .... Price agreed SUBJECT to Survey and findings ....
So with luck - you will negotiate down BEFORE survey and then the survey report and price of work will further bring it down. Often a 50 - 50 deal can be made on the repair work.
Is Osmosis work necessary ..... that is why I asked the listed points .... on a heavy build boat it is argued that a few blisters here and there are not going to be drastic. But a,lightly built boat may be another matter - as we do not know why you have blisters .... Second I do not know of any boat that has been lost due to it ..... but maybe that is only a matter of time ... ?? a long time !
It is your choice .... but many insurance co's still frown on blistered boats ..... and if a survey points it out and makes recc'd's - you may be stuck with Ins. Co. instructing you to do the work.
Sorry to be a messenger of bad news ..... but sadly it is taking time for Ins. Co's to break away from it ....
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
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b) Is it your observation that found them or a surveyor etc. ?
c) What is the age of the boat ?
Now weigh up the pro's and cons of the boat, its price etc.
Decide whether you want to have a surveyor check her over and then priced up for the work - if advised.
A submission to the seller that a reduction be made against ....... NOT his price, BUT .... Price agreed SUBJECT to Survey and findings ....
So with luck - you will negotiate down BEFORE survey and then the survey report and price of work will further bring it down. Often a 50 - 50 deal can be made on the repair work.
Is Osmosis work necessary ..... that is why I asked the listed points .... on a heavy build boat it is argued that a few blisters here and there are not going to be drastic. But a,lightly built boat may be another matter - as we do not know why you have blisters .... Second I do not know of any boat that has been lost due to it ..... but maybe that is only a matter of time ... ?? a long time !
It is your choice .... but many insurance co's still frown on blistered boats ..... and if a survey points it out and makes recc'd's - you may be stuck with Ins. Co. instructing you to do the work.
Sorry to be a messenger of bad news ..... but sadly it is taking time for Ins. Co's to break away from it ....
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
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Deep_6
New member
Just another thought - it may be worth asking if the boat has already been treated for osmosis - if yes - was the work guaranteed - if yes - is it still valid?
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starboard
Active member
There are two types of boat...one's with osmosis, and one's that are going to get it.....however I have never heard of one sinking because of it!!!!!
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muchy_
New member
When you say does osmosis matter, if you mean will it stop me enjoying the boat or place the boat in any danger then the answer is no. If you mean will it affect sale price if you decide to sell then yes.
I guess it comes down to your own choice and the value of the boat. If I were to find osmosis on my boat it would not worry me at all and I certainly would not spend 3 or 4 grand to have the thing treated. Just dig em out, dry it with a hair dryer, fill it with a resin filler and re-paint. Even if you do have it done by the professionals theres no gaurantee that it wont be back (in as little as fours years has been known). However, if the boat is worth a considerable amount of money then you don't really want to be doing this.
Ya pays ya money ya makes ya choice I guess.........Good luck with it.
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I guess it comes down to your own choice and the value of the boat. If I were to find osmosis on my boat it would not worry me at all and I certainly would not spend 3 or 4 grand to have the thing treated. Just dig em out, dry it with a hair dryer, fill it with a resin filler and re-paint. Even if you do have it done by the professionals theres no gaurantee that it wont be back (in as little as fours years has been known). However, if the boat is worth a considerable amount of money then you don't really want to be doing this.
Ya pays ya money ya makes ya choice I guess.........Good luck with it.
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longjohnsilver
Well-known member
Yep, agree with almost all you say, but before drying give it a good wash with freshwater to get rid of any remaining styrene which is what attracted the water in the first place.
Oh and I know someone who had his boat professionally treated and the pox returned in less than 2 years!!
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Oh and I know someone who had his boat professionally treated and the pox returned in less than 2 years!!
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muchy_
New member
Hi Mr Silver. WOW, back in 2 years. I would be most upset paying all that money just to get it back in two years. That has turned me even more against "professional" treatments. In fact, I bet once you dig the blisters out and wash and dry the area before repair as you quite rightly say, that it lasts longer than a "proper" job.
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G
Guest
Guest
There are always friday boats
2 years has happened - particularly with some of the 'Mobile' treatment boys in the early days ..... things were not understood so well then ... and unfortunately some carried on in ignorance for some years ....
Of course the law of averages says that there will be failures .... but the Guarantee should cover that, as most are issued for 5 years.
Of course another factor is that an amateur using a meter or 'some' may interpret the readings wrongly especially when confronted by an epoxied hull.
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
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2 years has happened - particularly with some of the 'Mobile' treatment boys in the early days ..... things were not understood so well then ... and unfortunately some carried on in ignorance for some years ....
Of course the law of averages says that there will be failures .... but the Guarantee should cover that, as most are issued for 5 years.
Of course another factor is that an amateur using a meter or 'some' may interpret the readings wrongly especially when confronted by an epoxied hull.
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
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G
Guest
Guest
Guarantees ....
A lot are non-tranferrable - but require a letter etc. and agreement with underwriter.
It would be better to agree with seller to have the claim made BEFORE selling the boat ..... get it fixed then sell .... but of course is that legal ?? Problem here is blisters have been found and the boat is under sale conditions.
Maybe I'm wrong ?? Maybe someone has gone through this and can advise ?
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
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A lot are non-tranferrable - but require a letter etc. and agreement with underwriter.
It would be better to agree with seller to have the claim made BEFORE selling the boat ..... get it fixed then sell .... but of course is that legal ?? Problem here is blisters have been found and the boat is under sale conditions.
Maybe I'm wrong ?? Maybe someone has gone through this and can advise ?
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
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poter
Active member
Re: There are always friday boats
Nigel
What guarantee??
As you may be aware I had some problems with Shady when I bought her, as it turned out after a lot of investigation , it was not too bad. But while I was looking at various 'professional' companies that were able to treat & do an epoxy job, none were willing to give a guarantee. Stating that there were too many variables in a 26 year old boat.
poter.
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Nigel
What guarantee??
As you may be aware I had some problems with Shady when I bought her, as it turned out after a lot of investigation , it was not too bad. But while I was looking at various 'professional' companies that were able to treat & do an epoxy job, none were willing to give a guarantee. Stating that there were too many variables in a 26 year old boat.
poter.
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longjohnsilver
Well-known member
Re: There are always friday boats
This was on a charter boat at Lyme Regis, blisters larger than your thumb. And the treatment was done at a professional centre, out of the water for months.
Quite strange that it re-appeared so quickly, especially as Lyme is a drying harbour, so for almost half the time the hull was out of the water!
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This was on a charter boat at Lyme Regis, blisters larger than your thumb. And the treatment was done at a professional centre, out of the water for months.
Quite strange that it re-appeared so quickly, especially as Lyme is a drying harbour, so for almost half the time the hull was out of the water!
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Lizzie_B
New member
Lizzie B was surveyed prior to purchase, and we were told by the highly reputable surveyor that she had serious osmosis that would require a full gelcoat strip, drying under cover with heaters etc for several months and then a full anti osmosis treatment. Fortunately, the Blakes approved yard at Plymouth where she was lying agreed to lift her out and investigate as they felt taking a meter reading 'on the slip dried out between tides (as the surveyor had) was far from ideal. She was lifted onto hard standing (outside) and despite several rain showers her hull readings were fine within a fortnight. The yard recommended five coats of epoxy and two of Copperguard as a preventative measure and four years later the hull looks like new and no annual antifouling. Well worth the £1800 they charged. It's always worth negotiating some sort of check and see.. The vendors were very helpful. They paid the lift out and agreed to pay for any remedial work and we paid the agreed price and the lift in after the yard had completed any upgrades we wanted doing. It was highly satisfying experience and no brokerage fees.
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G
Guest
Guest
Re: There are always friday boats
Not eceryone will guarantee ..... if they don't then I go somewhere else.
Seems a bit odd to condemn a 26 yr old boat ...... mine was near 28 yrs old when it was done and guaranteed ......
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
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Not eceryone will guarantee ..... if they don't then I go somewhere else.
Seems a bit odd to condemn a 26 yr old boat ...... mine was near 28 yrs old when it was done and guaranteed ......
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
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G
Guest
Guest
Various factors ...
If the voids are not properly filled on treatment - can later blister seriously and in short time.
If boat is heated too much and dried out, heaters taken away and then cooled before application of epoxy ..... hull draws in moisture like a sponge as it cools.
Poor adhesion of epoxy to hull, possibly not washed off sufficiently before application.
My bet without seeing the boat - dangerous - but anyway possible ..... voids is most likely cause .....
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
/forums/images/icons/cool.gif
If the voids are not properly filled on treatment - can later blister seriously and in short time.
If boat is heated too much and dried out, heaters taken away and then cooled before application of epoxy ..... hull draws in moisture like a sponge as it cools.
Poor adhesion of epoxy to hull, possibly not washed off sufficiently before application.
My bet without seeing the boat - dangerous - but anyway possible ..... voids is most likely cause .....
<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
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richardandtracy
New member
Does osmosis matter?
I will now spout from the safety of a steel boat that is only slowly [I sincerely hope] rusting away before my eyes..
Yes, osmosis does matter. And No, it doesn't.
Osmosis does matter a lot to insurers (as discussed in other replies). I won't expound on the rather erudite comments already made.
Should it matter to a user at a technical/safety level? Well, that depends on the type of boat and use.
When it comes down to it, osmosis is a local delamination of the GRP. So, where the blister is, there is no useful strength left, and load transfer to areas around the delaminated section will increase the risk of further localised delamination. This is important in a lightly built hull, or in one where you're faced with a survival storm where premature catastrophic structural failure could be initiated. If you are never to leave sheltered waters and sail carefully, you could probably get away with a vessel that's 90% delaminated with osmosis. In most cases, the situation will fall somewhere between the two extremes. As the master of the vessel, you'd have to make your decision as to the safety of the vessel in a given situation, knowing the degree of osmosis, weather, experience of crew and an estimate of safety factors built in to the structure. Not an easy decision, but I've not yet seen osmosis to the extent where I feel a vessel (or lives) would be endangered in normal conditions, say up to gale force.
So, as I said, yes and no.
I bet that doesn't help at all!
Regards
Richard.
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I will now spout from the safety of a steel boat that is only slowly [I sincerely hope] rusting away before my eyes..
Yes, osmosis does matter. And No, it doesn't.
Osmosis does matter a lot to insurers (as discussed in other replies). I won't expound on the rather erudite comments already made.
Should it matter to a user at a technical/safety level? Well, that depends on the type of boat and use.
When it comes down to it, osmosis is a local delamination of the GRP. So, where the blister is, there is no useful strength left, and load transfer to areas around the delaminated section will increase the risk of further localised delamination. This is important in a lightly built hull, or in one where you're faced with a survival storm where premature catastrophic structural failure could be initiated. If you are never to leave sheltered waters and sail carefully, you could probably get away with a vessel that's 90% delaminated with osmosis. In most cases, the situation will fall somewhere between the two extremes. As the master of the vessel, you'd have to make your decision as to the safety of the vessel in a given situation, knowing the degree of osmosis, weather, experience of crew and an estimate of safety factors built in to the structure. Not an easy decision, but I've not yet seen osmosis to the extent where I feel a vessel (or lives) would be endangered in normal conditions, say up to gale force.
So, as I said, yes and no.
I bet that doesn't help at all!
Regards
Richard.
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graham
Well-known member
Osmosis is more of a financial problem on a small boat .
If you have a 20 foot boat that cost £4000 pounds the cost of treatment could be 50%of its value.
If you look at a 30 foot boat for £40000 the remedial work would probably be around 10% of its value.Making it within negotiating limits.
If the boat has only a couple of small blisters it is not going to be a structural problem .In fact even really badly blistered boats continue to give good service .
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If you have a 20 foot boat that cost £4000 pounds the cost of treatment could be 50%of its value.
If you look at a 30 foot boat for £40000 the remedial work would probably be around 10% of its value.Making it within negotiating limits.
If the boat has only a couple of small blisters it is not going to be a structural problem .In fact even really badly blistered boats continue to give good service .
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Petercatterall
New member
'dig them out,dry with hair drier and fill. is this the solution for me?
I have quite a lot of blisters(about 3mm across an.5mm proud) on my 1975 Colvic Atlanta hull. Pricking does release the smelly fluid indicative of osmosis.
I baulk at the time and cost of having the work done proffessionally.
I am a fairly enthusiastic DIY er but from past experiance know that such a big job would be testing my boredom threshold.
Given this would it be possible to do the job over a few seasons? I know I could make a good job if I restricted myself to say half side a year!!
I guess I could get all the antifoul off at the same time!!
All sugestions welcome
'Lazy Boy'
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I have quite a lot of blisters(about 3mm across an.5mm proud) on my 1975 Colvic Atlanta hull. Pricking does release the smelly fluid indicative of osmosis.
I baulk at the time and cost of having the work done proffessionally.
I am a fairly enthusiastic DIY er but from past experiance know that such a big job would be testing my boredom threshold.
Given this would it be possible to do the job over a few seasons? I know I could make a good job if I restricted myself to say half side a year!!
I guess I could get all the antifoul off at the same time!!
All sugestions welcome
'Lazy Boy'
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Apetts
New member
Osmosis - best paint seller ever invented!
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