Does lead react with diesel?

[thinwater]

Most of the fuel experts warn about 'yellow metals' i.e. copper and brass.
I've not seen anything authorititive about lead or tin.
But these days lead is pretty much ruled out of most things by ROSHH.

(US Automaker Trade Group Study)
"Galvanized storage tanks, piping and terne coated vehicle tanks have led to serious field issues in the past. Zinc has a tendency to accumulate in spray-holes and contribute to nozzle coking. Lead (a component of terne plating) is attacked by fuel acids and forms soap precipitates. Copper may catalytically accelerate fuel oxidation and promote deposition of solids. Non-ferrous metals and their alloys should be excluded from use in fuel pipes and storage tanks and in the entire vehicle fuel system."

(UD DOE study)
Certain metals may affect the biodiesel by accelerat-ing its oxidation process and creating fuel insolubles. Lead, tin, brass, bronze, and zinc significantly increase sediment formation in both B100 and B20. Galvanized metal and terne-coated sheet metal are not compatible with biodiesel at any blend level.

ASTM D975 Appendix X2.7.2: Fuel Storage Conditions
Copper and copper-containing alloys should be avoided. Copper can promote fuel degradation and may produce mercaptide gels. Zinc coatings can react with water or organic acids to form gels which rapidly clog filters.

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Terne plating used to be lead with a little tin. Now there are many version, the most common of which is 50% zinc, which is known to be a problem.

Not mentioned in the study is that terne is vulnerable if the diesel gets even a little bug and the pH drops. I've seen severe damage to infected terne plated tanks.

There are also studies of alternative tanks materials for cars and trucks. Most of them are plastic these days. My last two boats had plastic installed tanks. Seems weird, since OSHA prohibits plastic jerry cans, but there it is.

 

[rotrax]

(US Automaker Trade Group Study)
"Galvanized storage tanks, piping and terne coated vehicle tanks have led to serious field issues in the past. Zinc has a tendency to accumulate in spray-holes and contribute to nozzle coking. Lead (a component of terne plating) is attacked by fuel acids and forms soap precipitates. Copper may catalytically accelerate fuel oxidation and promote deposition of solids. Non-ferrous metals and their alloys should be excluded from use in fuel pipes and storage tanks and in the entire vehicle fuel system."

(UD DOE study)
Certain metals may affect the biodiesel by accelerat-ing its oxidation process and creating fuel insolubles. Lead, tin, brass, bronze, and zinc significantly increase sediment formation in both B100 and B20. Galvanized metal and terne-coated sheet metal are not compatible with biodiesel at any blend level.

ASTM D975 Appendix X2.7.2: Fuel Storage Conditions
Copper and copper-containing alloys should be avoided. Copper can promote fuel degradation and may produce mercaptide gels. Zinc coatings can react with water or organic acids to form gels which rapidly clog filters.

----

Terne plating used to be lead with a little tin. Now there are many version, the most common of which is 50% zinc, which is known to be a problem.

Not mentioned in the study is that terne is vulnerable if the diesel gets even a little bug and the pH drops. I've seen severe damage to infected terne plated tanks.

There are also studies of alternative tanks materials for cars and trucks. Most of them are plastic these days. My last two boats had plastic installed tanks. Seems weird, since OSHA prohibits plastic jerry cans, but there it is.

I appreciate that the world has moved on and fuel composition is now different, but all the timplate tanks used with diesel I have repaired/replaced have had internal corrosion through water in the fuel.

I could not help noting that there were a lot of mights and mays in the above post, as well as cans.

Not too many " does ".

I'm going a bit Brent Swain here-in my direct experience of well over 45 years, it been OK.

 

[Daydream believer]

Why can the OP not go to a local car parts shop & buy a length of metal fuel pipe & poke that down the hole?

 

[thinwater]

I appreciate that the world has moved on and fuel composition is now different, but all the timplate tanks used with diesel I have repaired/replaced have had internal corrosion through water in the fuel.

I could not help noting that there were a lot of mights and mays in the above post, as well as cans.

Not too many " does ".

I'm going a bit Brent Swain here-in my direct experience of well over 45 years, it been OK.

Just sharing information. In my work I've done some testing with zinc and copper and know that to be true. ASTM, Cummins, Yanmar, and Caterpillar all advise very strongly against copper and galvanized. The only reason for the "can" in the ASTM language is that some amount of water is required. If there is water, it becomes "will." Been there, done that, ask Cummins or Caterpillar.

One of the problems with terne is that it can be many different alloys, from tin to mostly lead, to half zinc. Based on my information, I agree that tin is a pretty safe bet. But like cheap valves, if it just says "terne" you don't know what you are getting.

The other problem is biodiesel sneaking in, often as a result of using the same tanker for multiple products. If they take a load somewhere and the station can't take the last 500 liters, they just load on top of it (so long as it isn't petrol... though that happens too).

Finally, effective corrosion inhibitors can stop the reaction. Often the refinery treatment is enough. That is another reason for "may."

 

[Heckler]

In fact, one reason they were terne plated instead of galvanized (same with oil and fuel filters) is that zinc reacts very badly with gasoline and diesel. Galvinized and zinc parts are typically banned by engine installation manuals and is banned by petrol installation code in the US. In the presence of even trace water, zinc ions react with the fuel causing gum formation.

Aha, so thats why the float chambers of small outboards get that gunge in them! Water, absorbed by the alcohol in our fuel nowadays is left when the petrol and alcohol evaporates, reacts with the zinc in the brass jets etc etc. Also on some Hondas I wondered why the galvanised float bowls react so badly amd rust.

 

[thinwater]

Aha, so thats why the float chambers of small outboards get that gunge in them! Water, absorbed by the alcohol in our fuel nowadays is left when the petrol and alcohol evaporates, reacts with the zinc in the brass jets etc etc. Also on some Hondas I wondered why the galvanised float bowls react so badly amd rust.

Yes, BINGO! Pitting in the bowl is quite common. The answer is Biobor EB. VERY effective against this.

 

[lw395]

I appreciate that the world has moved on and fuel composition is now different, but all the timplate tanks used with diesel I have repaired/replaced have had internal corrosion through water in the fuel.
.....

You only get asked to mend the ones which have failed, not the ones which are OK?

 

[eddystone]

Just curious. I found a suitable piece of aluminium tube in b&q to push a section into the end of said pvc tubing which enabled me to reach bottom of tank. However couldnt generate a vacuum with the Pela - could this be because the inner diameter of the tube is too great - the wand on the tube that comes with the Pela is only a couple of mm widw?