Does anyone make or sell or own a legal anchor ball?

guernseyman said:
If the Colregs wanted a sphere I guess they would say so.

Ball = sphere is just the OP's opinion. What of a Rugby ball?

The Plastimo things are a ball when hoisted generally upright to be viewed from another boat.
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I agree - TCM is (with respect) having a bit of a troll when he says that the two circular bits that slot together don't constitute a ball. Its the shape as seen that's critical - and if you put it up the right way it always looks like a ball. QED.

I also don't think that there's a court in the land that would allow you to claim that the boat wasn't showing a proper shape if you were using the plastimo type slot together shapes as some sort of defence for running into them when they were anchored.

Its a slightly mischievous post that oughtn't to be encouraged is my personal opinion - but perhaps I am encouraging the discussion by posting myself??
 
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John Morris is quite right that this is mischievous. It is ... but only a bit. But the regs requires a ball and any dictionary defines a ball as being a spherical or approximately spherical object. If a rugby ball was okay then they'd presumably defines major and minor diameters. If as facsimilae of a ball was okay, they'd presumably say so because they say precisely that for a dive flag.

Put it this way - if (say) I dragged on to anyone else (also at anchor) and that other boat isn't showing an (approximately spherical) black ball where it can be seen ... i'd definitely say so on the insurance claim and let them work it out. I think the same applies in harbour by the way - made fast to the shore legally the same as made fast to the sea bed? Whatever. As far as I can see the PLastimo things just haven't been challenged and the insurance companies haven't cottoned on to it.

Yep, Brendan's balloon idea is probably fine - and erm i admit that i bought some large balloons prior to making this post...
 
tcm said:
John Morris is quite right that this is mischievous. It is ... but only a bit. But the regs requires a ball and any dictionary defines a ball as being a spherical or approximately spherical object.
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That may be true, but first one needs to understand what is meant by a 'definition' in the context of a dictionary.
In this context the term 'definition' is meant as a description of the meaning(s) which have been assigned by common usage to that word, together with pronunciation, etymology and any former meanings.
If one wished to set exclusive bounds to a word (which appears to be the case in your post ?), one would use a 'precising definition' which would include additional criteria to narrow down the set of things meeting the desired definition.

Ordinary dictionaries do not contain precising definitions, only descriptive definitions - so for example we see:

A spherical or almost spherical body [define 'almost' ...]

A solid spherical or pointed projectile, such as one shot from a cannon

Any more or less rounded part or protuberance, especially of the body: the ball of the foot.

A testicle ... No - you're not going to hoist mine up aloft - anchored or not !
 
Yes, all agreed. I might well put up a ball which upon careful analysis wasn't actualy spherical. But the fact that some are now resorting to asking for a definition of "almost" has shifted the ground.

I suppose ultimately this is what judges are there to decide. Or more likely, for the insurance companies to make a compromise based on me (dragging) and making a series of short blasts to request that another boat behind makes their intentions clear, and that boat giving the impression of overtaking me (and therefore having to keep clear) which in fact was anchored and not showing a legal anchor ball. Putting up a plastimo ball i suppose is better than nothing, unless it's me (or perhaps others reading this thread) who whacks into you...
 
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Seajet said:
Now let me be perfectly clear about this one; I am doing the rest of you and the world a large favour by even attempting something vaguely ball-like in its' appearance.

If I find someone on my foredeck wearing a col reg inspectors' hat with a camera, vernier guage & tape measure they will be walking home in an odd manner, with the 'facsimile' as a souvenir. In full 90 degree format.
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Word
 
tcm said:
Yes, all agreed. I might well put up a ball which upon careful analysis wasn't actualy spherical. But the fact that some are now resorting to asking for a definition of "almost" has shifted the ground.

I suppose ultimately this is what judges are there to decide. Or more likely, for the insurance companies to make a compromise based on me (dragging) and making a series of short blasts to request that another boat behind makes their intentions clear, and that boat giving the impression of overtaking me (and therefore having to keep clear) which in fact was anchored and not showing a legal anchor ball. Putting up a plastimo ball i suppose is better than nothing, unless it's me (or perhaps others reading this thread) who whacks into you...
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Mattie
Yer just talking balls here.....
 
tcm said:
Yes, all agreed. I might well put up a ball which upon careful analysis wasn't actualy spherical. But the fact that some are now resorting to asking for a definition of "almost" has shifted the ground.

I suppose ultimately this is what judges are there to decide. Or more likely, for the insurance companies to make a compromise based on me (dragging) and making a series of short blasts to request that another boat behind makes their intentions clear, and that boat giving the impression of overtaking me (and therefore having to keep clear) which in fact was anchored and not showing a legal anchor ball. Putting up a plastimo ball i suppose is better than nothing, unless it's me (or perhaps others reading this thread) who whacks into you...
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A lawyer's paradise. One boat reversing into another, ignoring an obvious attempt to display an anchor ball (is there any other reasonable interpretation? Was the reversing boat able to distinguish between a Plastimo ball and a real spherical ball with vertical striations and other possible discolorations?).
 
I'm beginning to wonder about the legal implications of motor sailing, whilst using my non-conical cone, into an anchored boat which is showing a non-spherical ball.......

The lawyers will have a field day. :)
 
guernseyman said:
A lawyer's paradise. One boat reversing into another, ignoring an obvious attempt to display an anchor ball (is there any other reasonable interpretation? Was the reversing boat able to distinguish between a Plastimo ball and a real spherical ball with vertical striations and other possible discolorations?).
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Yes...but has anyone actual 'empirical' experience of this, has anyone replying to this forum actually been prosecuted for a breach ....AKA , Dylan Winters post re: courtesy flags....say what you will...but this and , 'the motoring cone' seem to be the least observed 'rules of the road' , why...because the actions are so 'obvious' to the reasonable man , (sailor)....

So..why don't I have to show an anchor light on my 19' sail-boat?....why don't I have to show Nav Lights?....but must have a 'torch' ready to show on my sails if needed....but my sails are red...

is my boat any less likely to be hit . or hit , another boat just because of its length.;...go figure
 
Applescruffs said:
..... is my boat any less likely to be hit . or hit , another boat just because of its length.;...go figure
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It is less likely to be involved in collision which is why you dont have to comply with some aspects of the rules for larger vessels.

Applescruffs said:
.... because the actions are so 'obvious' to the reasonable man
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With regard to the context, Dylan was talking about motoring cones, but the same can not be true about anchoring i.e. "obvious to the reasonable man". For example, my Avatar is of me anchoring in the entrance to a popular Firth of Clyde anchorage. Another yacht wishing to use the anchorage (lunch time stop for example) might have thought I was leaving in this case. However, as I show the anchor ball the skipper would then be able to manoeuvre past me as appropriate being aware of my situation.
 
On one occasion I was trundling along Hayling foreshore under sail, when a large flying bridge style mobo came the other way on a near collision course, doing a good 20 knots + and displaying a black ball from the top...

I wasn't all that surprised and just assumed he'd forgotten to take it down, but as he went past I saw it was a permanently mounted satellite TV dish !!! :rolleyes:
 
We always fly an anchor ball, for two reasons. In many countries, e.g Portugal, you will be fined if you don't fly one and they do enforce it. Secondly insurance, if you don't fly one and get hit there is no good argument that an insurance company should pay.
 
Applescruffs said:
is my boat any less likely to be hit . or hit , another boat just because of its length.;...go figure
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The average boat is larger than yours. If my boat collided with you its likely I would suffer minor damage, with little risk of injury or death to me or my crew. The consequences to you are greater. The decision is yours. The regulations do not prevent you displaying lights, they just assume you will make a responsible decision based on the type of sailing you do.
 
Seajet said:
Now let me be perfectly clear about this one; I am doing the rest of you and the world a large favour by even attempting something vaguely ball-like in its' appearance.

If I find someone on my foredeck wearing a col reg inspectors' hat with a camera, vernier guage & tape measure they will be walking home in an odd manner, with the 'facsimile' as a souvenir. In full 90 degree format.
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+1 :D

Oh bugger, I never was very good at trolling....
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You are such a liar Brenda! :p
 
Q. What is difficult about putting up in an obvious place a thing that looks ball shaped?

A. Absolutely nothing, it is ridiculously easy and costs nothing.

Why do some people make this out to be a problem???
 
So, where is the best place to get these balls and cones ? I assume they're all the same really ?

Boo2
 
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