Does a motoring cone give right of way

If the skipper of the AWB was aware enough to hoist the cone, then he had probably made a good judgement in clearing the racing fleet, his 'high speed' being a worthy and successful effort to clear the fleet without too much disturbance.

On the point raised by Bedouin, Scottie, tell me did the race course force the boats down this narrow channel, or rather did the skippers of the racing fleet choose this channel as a short cut?

If the course was laid down this channel, then that is irresponsible judgement on the part of the club (do they really believe they can commandeer a stretch of water??) or if the skippers made the choice, to gain time, then they have ti live with their own choice and respect that not everyone is racing.
 
Hmmm

.
trollspray.gif
 
scottie said:
Sorry should say that the channel is only about 5-6 boathlengths between rocky shores a very flukey wind with slow sailing boats and there is a alternative channel on other side of the islands a bit longer
If I had been motor sailing I would not of have gone through other boats and certainly not at full speed
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If it was me I wouldn't be so interested in the AWB but I would have to ask why a Race Officer decided that to race boats up a channel that was only 5-6 boat-lengths wide with rocky shores either sde ~ I think you should go find said RO and give him a slap!!!!

Peter
 
"If it was me I wouldn't be so interested in the AWB but I would have to ask why a Race Officer decided that to race boats up a channel that was only 5-6 boat-lengths wide with rocky shores either sde ~ I think you should go find said RO and give him a slap!!!"

Sounds like a good test of navigational and boat handling skills to me - and loads of fun unless you are a sheet grinder.
 
TheBoatman said:
If it was me I wouldn't be so interested in the AWB but I would have to ask why a Race Officer decided that to race boats up a channel that was only 5-6 boat-lengths wide with rocky shores either sde ~ I think you should go find said RO and give him a slap!!!!

Peter
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That's a bit harsh - there are two channels through this area, both narrow, and one is a dogleg. At least the one referred to is straight. When I have raced through here the SIs have not specified which channel to take - there is not much in it in terms of distance, so depending on conditions each one could be favourable.
 
A group of boats racing from Largs to Kames, going through the narrows at the north end of the east kyle of bute.
A boat motorsailing through the same channel.
B****r all to do with the race officer & no "irresponsible judgement on behalf of the club"
Motoring cone or not, power gives way to sail, more so in a narrow channel where both vessels are of a similar type and length (motorsailer very similar to the boats that were racing) so in answer to the original question, no, hoisting a motoring cone does not give a boat any greater or lesser "rights".

It is unusual to see a motoring cone hoisted, but atleast it meant that no one racing would be in any doubt that this guy was motoring and not sailing and therefore the onus was on him to keep clear.

All other observations about his speed / proximity to other boats are a matter of personal judgement.
No collisions occured, from the op's posts, non-one racing had to take avoiding action ... so where is the issue.
We would all make our own decision if we were cruising and met a fleet racing.
My view and approach is to let them have their fun and keep out of the way.

Yes you can claim that Colregs give you "rights" but always remember the following passage (Paul Boissier'e book, rules of the road)
Yachtsmen: Few have a detailed knowledge of the rules of the road. Armed only with arcane interpretations of obscure rules, they will plough on regardless, expecting everyone else to get out of their way.
 
bedouin said:
Where in the rules you have quoted does it say the sailing vessel becomes give way?

That's right it doesn't

End of Discussion :)
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I'd have thought there was a teensy-weensy little clue in

"...a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."
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further clarification

Not a troll just an original observation the combination of the cone with in my opinion inconsiderate behaviour suggests some one who may know the law but not have much judgement

they could see the boats in the channel but still insisted their right to do so rather than go round the Islands

For those who know the area we were going through the west chanel which is the dog leg
against wind and tide in light weather so speed over ground was minimal and with some wind shifts actually backwards

We certainly were restricted in tacking by the powered boat who gave no indication of being able to avoid any of the sailing boats

I accept the quickly through less hazard point

This channel has been raced through for many years and is an accepted passage
it is not dangerous if all concerned give and take
 
photo evidence help

does any one have a decent photo of the burnt isle
I have not been able to google one that shows the lay out
 
well balanced

as a well balanced scotsman ie a chip on both shoulders I have a right to to be upset by any one using a motoring cone in polite company
 
aquaplane said:
Fancy sailing through there:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=55.929803,-5.176191&spn=0.018272,0.045705&t=h&z=15

If I came across anyone sailing through such a narrow gap, I would slice their sheets and they could f**k right off :P
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Are you lost? Your contribution looks more appropriate to the "Snooksy woken by nasty man" thread.

Boats have sailed through the Burnt Islands since time immemorial long before the creation of the infernal combustion engine and while I tend to at least have the donk running, I shall defend to the death their rights to do so.
 
MoodyNick said:
Everybody's missed the point so far...... there is no such thing as Right of Way in Colregs so with regard to the question in the original title the answer is NO.
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Someone always comes up with that red herring in every colregs discussion.

'Having right of way' has no definition in the col regs so can only be taken as having the meaning defined by common usage which is equivalent to 'stand on vessel' and 'give way vessel' is generally understood as the same as 'vessel which must keep clear'.

The rather strange definition of 'right of way' as meaning 'entitled to ram anything that gets in the way' exists only in the minds of pedants.
 
orbister said:
I'd have thought there was a teensy-weensy little clue in
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No - it says nothing about it being the give way vessel - colregs makes it quite clear that the stand on / give way rules continue to apply.

The meaning of "must not impede the safe passage" is precisely defined within the rules and in the context of the rules it means nothing more or less than that.
 
MoodyNick said:
Everybody's missed the point so far...... there is no such thing as Right of Way in Colregs so with regard to the question in the original title the answer is NO.
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I too had thought about contributing to this thread that there is no such thing as right of way in colregs but I thought I would leave it to a new Yachtmaster (aka MoodyNick) to make reference to this fact (Karen has just put it on Facebook and Lizzie has seen it!);

so Forumites; please be upstanding and congratulate MoodyNick on his achievement. (I'll have a cold lager)
 
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