Dockerell 22 Snapdragon 23

IzzyDeadyet

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Hello me dearios as Rambling Sid used to say.

Talking of rambling; here is my first post.

Picture the scene: On the Cambs/Lincs border in the darkest fens it was 6.30am and still dark. It had been dark for months; ever since winter began in May of last year. It's very windy outside; part of the fence has been recycled into firewood and the wheelie bin is somewhere in the next county. In the kitchen a couple sit eating breakfast. A remarkably well preserved man is listening as his wife says:

"It's freezing cold and the middle of winter, a gale is blowing outside, half the country is under water, the fence blew down in the night but you want to buy a yacht. Only you would think of sailing at a time like this."

I need you to prove her wrong. It seems to me that when the world is falling down the only rational thing to do is think about sailing. As I've told my wife, only a fool would go outside in this weather to re-build a fence /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

I have sailed dinghies on and off (!) for much of the last half of the previous century but have always wanted a yacht. I kept putting off buying one until I was older and more grown up. Which is another way of saying I couldn't afford one.

The chairman of the Finance Committee tells me I've still not grown up and I still can't afford one. But ominously she has also said that if I don't buy a yacht soon I shall be too old or too dead. This begs the question: does she know something I don't?

According to my calculations (using Pythagoras a slide rule and log tables) I am only 28 years old (17 mental age) but swmbo and my 25 year old daughter contend that I am actually 54. This is clearly ridiculous but one of us must be wrong and I'm guessing it's me because in my experience those two are always right.

I thought due to advanced age I had missed the boat so to speak and was resigned to the fact that life and yachts had passed me by. But reading the 'Late Starters' thread on Scuttlebutt has given me new hope and the 'Sailing Boots' thread on PBO has breathed new life into my old pair of dinghy wellies. I'm beginning to scan the horizon and the for sale ads for a suitable yacht ie old and under £2500 on which I can have fun learning the ropes for a year or two or until I'm too old.

I'm looking for a 18-24 foot lift keel that can be ready to sail by the beginning of the season - I don't want a project boat. There will usually be two on board although ocasionally I will be sailing singlehanded.

In times past I've discussed this subject at length with various people in various bars and Dockrell 22 or Snapdragon (23 or 21?) seem to have been mentioned frequently as suitable choices. But I can't remember why or by whom /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

This is where you guys come in. I'd be grateful for any information about these two yachts; their strengths weaknesses, wet or dry, whether they're worth considering or not or is there something better in my price range £0-£2500 etc.

I can't find any really useful information on the web - there is a snapdragon owners association but contact is by snailmail. Preloved only has reviews for the larger Snapdragons and smaller Dockerell. I've searched ybw's archives and found a couple of threads, one with a RYA pfd link to a snapdragon23 site but the site no longer exists. I suppose the next step is to see if any are for sale and approach the owners but it doesn't seem fair to bother the owners with a list of questions (and they might be somewhat biased).

So can I bother you guys instead /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Thanks.
ps What do you think to this as a first post? Vague, rambling and mostly off topic. Marks out of ten for deviation?
 

actionoptics

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We sail a Snapdragon 747 (the later 24ft version) and it is our first big boat. Built like the proverbial out house - seems Thames Marine were not sure how strong fibre glass was. Ours has bilge keels and if not sailed correctly, has quite a sideways drift in a breeze but feels strong and solid and confidence inspiring. The cockpit spray hood keeps the cockpit dry. The 23 came in three versions - twin keel draught 2ft 6; drop keel 4 ft 10 and triple 2ft 4. I could send you the layout and sail plan if you are interested. Richard.
 

paulburton44

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Both are decent boats ???

I have the snapdragon 26 and actionoptics is right about thames marina and the strength fibreglass.
I think they thought this new glass stuff is not that strong lets make it twice as thick as it needs to be !!!!

Makes a very stable sea worthy boat..........

Have you thought about where to keep this new luxury yacht ???

We have cheap moorings at Boston not to far away from Peterborough.

www.withamsailingclub.co.uk
 

john_morris_uk

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I have noticed that there is a large selection of boats at that sort of price on Boats for Sale or you could try the YBW buy a boat section. At that sort of money brokers are often not interested and you might have some success mooching around the yards. The problem then is not being fobbed off with some pile of droppings that the yard is trying to get rid of.

Look at loads, looking is free and you will spot the bargain when you see it.

Good luck with your search.
 

tyce

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i had a dockerell 22 for a couple of years, lovely boat, accomadation really worked for me, and they will stand up equally well in club racing or cruising, if you bargain hard you will get a vey nice one for your budget.
bad points cant say there are any, never heard of any probs with them and at that price its a true bargain, get your money spent and enjoy before its to late.
any questions feel free to p.m. me
 

Thistle

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What about a trip to some of your local marinas? Have a look at what other people are using locally - if there are a few the same it probably means they are well suited to the local conditions. Speak to the owners if you can - they will normally be very pleased to show off their boats and will usually be honest enough to mention the drawbacks as well as the positives.

It's also worth making a list of the features you want / don't want from a boat. You can change the list as you see good and not so good features in the boats you look at. Eventually you'll be able to narrow down the choice to a few models which have more of the features you want and fewer of the things you want to avoid.

And remember to have a look at the marinas themselves. Are they places you would like to keep your boat? What facilities do they have? Crane / hoist? Chandler (swindler) / electronics / mechanics? Is there a sailing club? Pontoons / moorings / hardstanding? Drying / full-tide? Are the staff welcoming and helpful?

Also consider alternatives to marinas, for example local sailing clubs with moorings (but all the above questions apply to them as well.)

Above all, enjoy it - you're never too late. (I'm much the same age and a couple of years further down the "big boat" line ... but still mad enough to race Enterprises!)
 

Mudplugger

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Both choices will get you started, and most 18-24' of that era were built before the dreaded "value engineering" reared it's ugly head. A lot of Dockerells were home completed, so the hulls had to be pretty thick to take the stresses inflicted by insubstantial bulkheads...Also, probably worth looking at Kingfisher 20+, Leisure 20, and some of the Plywood JOG types that were around at the same time, Debutante,Ballerina, etc. HTH Tony W.
 

Spuddy

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One good ramble deserves another.
Well I'm really only 26, but the knees and back tell me otherwise.
This sailing business covers a multitude of entertainments. There's the boat owning bit which can cover obsessive restoration and maintenance ( see also classic gaff cutter ) or like the couple I saw with a Centaur who used it just for lounging around on at weekend- nice cup of tea and the sunday paper and there's also lots of abandoned projects about.
There's the actual sailing which is not brilliant all the time and compared to other pastimes doesn't really repay the cash and time outlay.
There's getting to places by boat which is a buzz in itself- even a broken down ex coal port seems like Tortuga - or anchoring up somewhere which can only be reached by boat.
You'll know that old truism- the smaller the boat the greater the pleasure.
One other pleasure is not buying or sailing at all and this has got to be best of all. Just sniff around marinas and boatyards looking at stuff. It's a great way of spending a weekend - cheaper than golf and you see lots of the watery bits of the country. You'll also find that there's lots of boats in corners that aren't on brokers lists cos the commission isn't worth it.
Kepp looking and there's bargains if you still want to play. I just missed a Contessa going for 4k because the executors wanted to wind things up.
Mine was listed at 5.5k but I got it for 1.5 and should have gone lower - she was abandoned by previous owner and marina wanted to get something back on unpaid bills. Minejou - regrets I've ad a few; it might get abandoned again.
As to classes. At our sort of price they're going to be old and in them days when you and I were 26 there were lots of small builders knocking out a few. There's certain to be lots of boats with similar specifications.
When I'm grafting away- glassing up leaks and rudders, spannering the inboard, bashing the joinery then I look up and see some sensible so and so with an 18footer with cuddy and outboard and min draft pottering off for a day out.
regards...spuddy
 

GART

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I have owned a Dockrell 22 for nearly 20 years, mine is very stable I went for the Dockrell, as I wanted lifting keel. You can get the brochure and test reports from http://www.dockrell.co.uk/ (the owner’s web site). I tow mine home for the winter and keep afloat in the summer, in theory they can be trailer sailed it is too much effort for just a couple of days. I only spend 10 days at a time maximum cruising the relatively sheltered waters of Chichester & the Solent. I cannot answer much about the Snapdragon, I looked at a few before buying the Dockrell and they were all bilge keelers.
 
G

Guest

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Had Snap 23 .... triple keel version

Heavy build, built like a tank !! Never win a race unless a very good handicap given to you !

But I found it a very good boat and whats more a lot for its money .... I paid £1150 .... but that was luck .... normal is £2000+ .....

Snapdragon Assoc - gave up with them .... if on East Coast fine ... anywhere else ??

But at end of day - its always best to wander round yards ... and most owners LIKE to show off their boats and describe why they think it BEST boat in the yard ......... don't be afraid to go and ask - many like the break from the job they are drudging through ....

GOOD LUCK and Happy New Year .... she'll come round sonner or not later !!!!
 

IzzyDeadyet

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Paul I'm still scratching my head about moorings so I'd appreciate your opinion - and anybody else's. (I'm also posting a new thread re moorings)

To be honest until you mentioned your sailing club I hadn't seriously considered the Wash as a sailing base even though Wisbech yacht harbour is fairly close.

I'd be very interested to hear what you (and others) think of the Wash as a sailing ground.

Can you also tell me more about your sailing club. We are only 30 minutes from Boston and access to the sea is probably easier there than from Wisbech.
 

Dave_Plymouth

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Dockerell 22 Ownwers Website

Gart

You may be interested to know that I have now set up a forum at www.dockrell.co.uk

To post messages yourself you need to register (free).

Any information you have would be appreciated.

Dave
 
G

Guest

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Snap 23 ..... one of my better boats in past ....

Advertised many moons ago at £3000 ..... looked at it, considered and then bought for £1150. Dead engine - Vire 6, green woodwork inside and out, osmosis treatment peeling like old onion skin ...... She'd sat out of water for 6 years, neglected in guys drive on blocks. (triple keel job)
So had her trucked to yard to strip old resin coat of under-hull - then 2 good layers of International Gelshield .... She was the dryest hull I had checked for years. Then got a trailer for £400 and took her home. Winter spent ripping out old Vire, fitting Mercury 7.5 Outboard, stripped all woodwork out and cleaned / varnished and refitted ..... Rebedded windows etc. etc.
The actual work was very satisfying and believe me - I am not the best with DIY etc. - but it was surprisingly easy and when finished - she was a beaut.
Sailed her out of Langstone for a good number of years .... till I then wanted something with a bit more headroom. She went to Brighton to new owner and I had reports later that he was very happy and enjoyed her.

There are bargains out there and the Snapdragon is a well built, reasonably heavy boat that is not expensive ... examples in good nick can be found at 2K and up ..... The triple keel I had is heavy and will never win any club regattas etc. - the handicap doesn't allow for the added bilge keel weight ... well I never got adjustment for it !!! The lifting keel version is the best IMHO and would have been my choice if one had been available at the time.

Go for it and 'sod' the fence !!!!
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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