Do you want to become a surveyor, new training course.

[Guest]

Wrong ...

"Some (but not all) of the various bodies to which surveyors belong make PI Insurance mandatory for their members and check it at each renewal date. "

That is actually not correct - why ? Any body or gropup that requires Insurnace or other cover / document only asks for "Do you have cover etc.?" - leaving it to the person / member to ensure they have it. The body or group will not require the documents etc. to be presented and checked / scrutinised by group - as that then partially shifts responsibility and liability to them in event of claims / problems if that cover fails in any way.

Don't believe me ? Simple example - Yacht Club with Moorings ... Membership renewal asks "Third Party Insurance cover taken against risks ?" You answer Yes and they don't check for very reason above. It is same for Surveyors - and how do you come to say ... "Some (but not all) of the various bodies ...." when basically there are two groups ? OK there are affiliated company bodies ... but basically only 2 main Yacht Survey Assoc's / groups. One have greatest respect for - one I do not. OOOPs .. shouldn't have said that ! I will qualify that - I have respect for individual Surveyors - most anyway, but the Assoc's ???? That is a different matter.

 

[luddites]

Re: This is a problem ...

Nigel this course is open to all. However there are only 24 places available in the year and priority is being given to those who wish to do the entire course with a view to applying for YDSA afflialte membership.

It is your free choice to dislike the YDSA and publicly criticise it but you should not assume that it has not changed and developed over the years just like everybody else. But the proof of the pudding is in the eating, YDSA has the respect and ear of the Industry, many parts of which specify YDSA surveyors. However I am not saying in any way shape or form that there are not extremely good non YDSA surveyors. The best advice for anybody wanting a survey in this unregulated field has always been to get local recommendation and it will always be so.
This course has been 4 years in the making and one of its primary objects is to take the combined 70 years experience of 3 different surveyors, (not all of whom are YDSA members), and pass that on to less experienced folk under actual survey conditions using a large variety of craft. I totally agree that there is no substitute for experience but we feel this is an attainable alterntive for potential surveyors and rather better than the study of theory alone followed by getting practical experience uising the boating public as guinea pigs.
The modules for this course are profusely illustrated with pictures of actual defects, not pretty pictures of marinas etc, to aid proper recognition and interpretation and are also of primary importance for the course. They are meant to be studied over a long period and to be reference books for the future.

The course will not suit everybody but we haven't just plucked it out of the air. In fact the extremely positive course critiques from delegates completing past shorter courses has shown us just what can be achieved with intensive practical training under survey conditions.

We have already asked the yachting press to join the inaugral course for a couple of days in order that they can offer the industry and yacht owners an unbiased opinion as to the merits or not of the course and this will be very helpful for all.

 

[Guest]

Re: This is a problem ...

[ QUOTE ]
Nigel this course is open to all. However there are only 24 places available in the year and priority is being given to those who wish to do the entire course with a view to applying for YDSA afflialte membership.

It is your free choice to dislike the YDSA and publicly criticise it but you should not assume that it has not changed and developed over the years just like everybody else. But the proof of the pudding is in the eating, YDSA has the respect and ear of the Industry, many parts of which specify YDSA surveyors. However I am not saying in any way shape or form that there are not extremely good non YDSA surveyors. The best advice for anybody wanting a survey in this unregulated field has always been to get local recommendation and it will always be so.
This course has been 4 years in the making and one of its primary objects is to take the combined 70 years experience of 3 different surveyors, (not all of whom are YDSA members), and pass that on to less experienced folk under actual survey conditions using a large variety of craft. I totally agree that there is no substitute for experience but we feel this is an attainable alterntive for potential surveyors and rather better than the study of theory alone followed by getting practical experience uising the boating public as guinea pigs.
The modules for this course are profusely illustrated with pictures of actual defects, not pretty pictures of marinas etc, to aid proper recognition and interpretation and are also of primary importance for the course. They are meant to be studied over a long period and to be reference books for the future.

The course will not suit everybody but we haven't just plucked it out of the air. In fact the extremely positive course critiques from delegates completing past shorter courses has shown us just what can be achieved with intensive practical training under survey conditions.

We have already asked the yachting press to join the inaugral course for a couple of days in order that they can offer the industry and yacht owners an unbiased opinion as to the merits or not of the course and this will be very helpful for all.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I already said - I applaud any efforts to improve the general situation and to educate.

But I have 2 problems with this - as we have had this discussion on a previous thread you brought this up with .. some time back. 1) I cannot get away from the thought that you have connection and interest in this course ... possibly financial or authoritative, 2) perception is again YBDSA trying to monopolise the field.

Onto YBDSA have industry ear ... yes in a way true - but there are various reasons for that other than "being" the supposed recognised body. They have been lucky to have been in right place at right time and befriended right people at right time. They have no authority or actual Professional Status despite some claims. But acts such as this compounds the misconception.
I am not the only Surveyor who is against such monopoly ... maybe I am one of the few who will speak out. Why shouldn't I ?

I wish well to any one who attends ... but I would hope that you correct the perception that some are getting - it is NOT a course to give you grounds to set-up as a surveyor ... of course you can with or without this course or any other, but hope that thje course teaches the person to look further into education and observatoion to gain the necessary to become a useful surveyor.

I will now pass on a little gem ... My boat is a Sunrider 25, built mid 70's in Poole by Searider Yachts. I answered an advertisement for it and viewed. I immediately knew that she wasn't what she was advertised as .... based on a Survey Report issued by one surveyor of said assoc...... A Colvic 26.

That report had been used with Insurance Co., Harbour etc.

I informed the seller - who had had the boat for quite a few years ... who's answer was - Surveyor was not so good - but Ins. Co. accepted report. I also got more people looking at the boat using his error.
The report was a complete shambles. In fact the mods required to the boat based on the report have been the biggest areas of problems with the boat deck and fittings wise.

Moral of that story ? Who's the experienced one then ? The one with letters after his name on the biz card, or another independent without such letters ...

Respect is earned - not taken by monopoly ....

I apologise to all good surveyors out there YBDSA or not. I have no intention to demean what are mostly experienced and good guys. I just like to indicate to the boating public that there are alternatives ....


Oh - I stopped some time ago surveying yachts in UK - market has been killed off and I live in Baltics anyway ... so acedemic to me now. Willing to help anyone if back in UK ... but that's yachting comradeship then ...

 

[luddites]

Re: This is a problem ...

[As I already said - I applaud any efforts to improve the general situation and to educate.

But I have 2 problems with this - as we have had this discussion on a previous thread you brought this up with .. some time back. 1) I cannot get away from the thought that you have connection and interest in this course ... possibly financial or authoritative, 2) perception is again YBDSA trying to monopolise the field
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Yes I have developed this course in conjunction with others but it's basically my baby. It is the culmination of 50 years spent in the yachts and small craft sector and I have done it because I am passionate about practical training not simualtion and all the other modern manifestations. I do have a financial interest but also have a a successful career anyway.
YDSA have thoroughy scrutined the course and endorsed it because they believe it has something top offer, but it is open to all.
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Onto YBDSA have industry ear ... yes in a way true - but there are various reasons for that other than "being" the supposed recognised body. They have been lucky to have been in right place at right time and befriended right people at right time. They have no authority or actual Professional Status despite some claims. But acts such as this compounds the misconception.
I am not the only Surveyor who is against such monopoly ... maybe I am one of the few who will speak out. Why shouldn't I ?
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I am not compounding any misconception, I am doing something because I believe in it. Read the prospectus. Actually I take exception to your comment. Precisely to be even handed one of the two main full time tutors on the course is a member of RINA not YDSA. You can of course express any opinion you like but it is preferable if it is accurate.
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I wish well to any one who attends ... but I would hope that you correct the perception that some are getting - it is NOT a course to give you grounds to set-up as a surveyor ... of course you can with or without this course or any other, but hope that thje course teaches the person to look further into education and observatoion to gain the necessary to become a useful surveyor.
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This course gives you more grounds to set up as a surveyor than a theory only course or even worse nothing at all. Why are you so negative about practical training? Some of the best surveyors are from practical backgrounds.
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I will now pass on a little gem ... My boat is a Sunrider 25, built mid 70's in Poole by Searider Yachts. I answered an advertisement for it and viewed. I immediately knew that she wasn't what she was advertised as .... based on a Survey Report issued by one surveyor of said assoc...... A Colvic 26.

That report had been used with Insurance Co., Harbour etc.

I informed the seller - who had had the boat for quite a few years ... who's answer was - Surveyor was not so good - but Ins. Co. accepted report. I also got more people looking at the boat using his error.
The report was a complete shambles. In fact the mods required to the boat based on the report have been the biggest areas of problems with the boat deck and fittings wise.
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You have just made the case for more and better training.
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Moral of that story ? Who's the experienced one then ? The one with letters after his name on the biz card, or another independent without such letters ...
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This course does not give you letters after your name. It passes on practical experience of 70 years from 3 different surveyors under actual survey conditions.
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Respect is earned - not taken by monopoly ....
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Totally agree but there is no monopoly and I am certainly not promoting one.
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I apologise to all good surveyors out there YBDSA or not. I have no intention to demean what are mostly experienced and good guys. I just like to indicate to the boating public that there are alternatives ....
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It's a free market
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Oh - I stopped some time ago surveying yachts in UK - market has been killed off and I live in Baltics anyway ... so acedemic to me now. Willing to help anyone if back in UK ... but that's yachting comradeship then ...

[/ QUOTE ]
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Market killed off? Don't understand that one, the demand for competent surveyors has nevere been greater.

cheers Paul (Stevens)