Do you prefer a wheel or a tiller?

Minn said:
One thing I learned from Tilman - who was a very good and safe seaman - as indeed he had to be - was that on a big heavy boat you keep a line on the tiller at all times, just as you always keep a vang on the gaff.
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An excellent point, I always have a line on the tiller for some reason or another. Even now tied up in a marina, there's a bungee on it.
If you have time I would be keen to hear the rationale behind always having a vang on the gaff.
I use a lightish line bent on the peak, to:

a) If I have both topping lifts rigged, I use a light line bent on the peak, to guide the peak in between them as the main is hoisted, otherwise the peak can go outside one of the toppers, causing miserable tangles.

b) When lowering the main, when the peak comes down below the two topping lifts and is free to swing crazily from side to side, the same line is used to tame the gaff peak as it approaches the boom, to stop it knocking my brains out.
After it parted my hair once, that was my warning..

Is this what is meant, or is the vang you mention intended to control the gaff peak when sailing, eg to control the twist in the main, prevent backing the gaff on a run, or perhaps in reserve in case of a rip in the main?

Apologies for the involved question, I've been sailing my heavy gaff cutter just for a year so far and pounce on anyone who I can milk for practical advice ;)
 
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mjcoon said:
Maybe Mr Cunliffe would like to join you for a sail so he can write up "lessons learnt" for YM?

Mike.
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Hmm, once he awarded us the much-coveted Wooden Spoon, for coming a firm last in an OGA Solent race.

It would be great to go out for a sail with Tom.. but I don't know if he could afford my daily rates :) :)
 
Lyndsey Doyle said:
An excellent point, I always have a line on the tiller for some reason or another. Even now tied up in a marina, there's a bungee on it.
If you have time I would be keen to hear the rationale behind always having a vang on the gaff.
I use a lightish line bent on the peak, to:

a) If I have both topping lifts rigged, I use a light line bent on the peak, to guide the peak in between them as the main is hoisted, otherwise the peak can go outside one of the toppers, causing miserable tangles.

b) When lowering the main, when the peak comes down below the two topping lifts and is free to swing crazily from side to side, the same line is used to tame the gaff peak as it approaches the boom, to stop it knocking my brains out.
After it parted my hair once, that was my warning..

Is this what is meant, or is the vang you mention intended to control the gaff peak when sailing, eg to control the twist in the main, prevent backing the gaff on a run, or perhaps in reserve in case of a rip in the main?

Apologies for the involved question, I've been sailing my heavy gaff cutter just for a year so far and pounce on anyone who I can milk for practical advice ;)
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(b). If you have a topsail sheet rove, you can use that; otherwise, have a line from the peak of the gaff and when lowering at sea someone (typically the helmsman) keeps the line taut and trapped round a cleat or similar to stop the gaff flailing from side to side.

Not having one, or not having a crew member who knew about it, was what killed Tabarly.

I have seen old photos of Essex smacks dredging for oysters, "put-to" with a vang belayed round the end of the boom for this purpose.

I have never seen this covered in a sailing book but I did write an article about it for "Classic Boat..".

If you do see Tom, tell him that I don't agree with his advice about leaving the peak halyard blocks un-moused.
 
Malo37 said:
Tiller - only one moving part, nothing to go wrong.
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I've broken a couple!
1 on a dinghy, stood on it in a capsize.
1 pivot bolt on a lifting tiller came undone, the tiller hood got bent.
A few tiller extension UJ's as well.
 
I think the answer is: depends what you're used to and how you learned.
When we switched boats and went from tiller to wheel, madame and I had a different reaction. She took quite some time getting used to the wheel. She had learned to sail dinghies as a kid, helming was intuïtieve to her and she had to re-learn and think about what was happening. For me the switch from tiller to wheel was quite smooth. I had learned to sail at a later age, as a rational process, and switching from push-pull to left-right was only a small mental step.
I loved the feel of the boat the tiller gave you and found singlehanding quite easy as both hands were free to handle the sheets while I steered with my bum. But I find my Whitlock steering gives me an equally good feel of the boat and the autopilot is so much more practical.
 
Kwik Decision said:
I don't think anybody has mentioned another advantage of a tiller over wheel, which is that it is obvious at a glance which way the rudder is pointing.

I recently did a weeks training on a wheeled steered boat, and had to get in the habit of spinning the wheel one way and then t'other to get it central before setting of (2.5 turns lock to lock, so even if the mark were at the top, the helm could easily be hard over one way or another......). Very pleased to get back to a tiller!
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The answer is to get a rudder position indicator. We have one on our 39' boat and it's invaluable.

Wandering Star said:
Had a tiller on my Ncouver 27 and loved it but quite recently sailed on a Rustler 36 with tiller steering and found it very heavy work, couldn't wait to engage the autopilot and get some relief. I think up too a certain size i'd prefer tiller steering but over that a wheels the way to go.
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Which goes to show that it all depends on the boat and the way you sail it....

Minn said:
Back in the Dawn of Time, I crewed for HW Tilman, who had just spent quite a bit of money at the Berthon Boatyard having Baroque's wheel removed and a tiller fitted in its place. She was / is a Bristol Channel pilot cutter 49ft x 13ft 6ins x 7ft. The tiller worked nicely. He was 76 at the time.
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From what I remember from reading the various books, Tillman was an interesting character. His dictatorial and hard nosed attitudes are no proof of his seamanship. His attitude to wheels proves nothing.

Minn said:
One thing I learned from Tilman - who was a very good and safe seaman - as indeed he had to be - was that on a big heavy boat you keep a line on the tiller at all times, just as you always keep a vang on the gaff.
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That's the good and safe seaman who's luck ran out and who was lost at sea...?


I'm bemused by the marmite nature of some of the comments. Both tillers and wheels are perfect in the right boats at the right time.

Small boats with wheels are sometimes an affectation IMHO.

Putting a tiller on a big boat is perhaps an indication of stubbornness or a closed mind?

If good wheel steering systems were available and cost effective to some of those working barges/pilot cutters they would have fitted them. Work boats were built down to a price and fancy wheel steering was expensive or not available. The huge tiller was cheap but often hard work.

Do I prefer a tiller or a wheel? Ask me what the boat is...
 
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As I get older, I find that sitting athwart ships while looking ahead is becoming more and more of a pain in the neck - literally! I am therefore hoping to convert my Westerly Centaur from Tiller to wheel steering. Incidentally, if anybody has done this before, or indeed as the bits and pieces needed to do it lying around in a corner of the garage, I would be very glad indeed to hear from you.
Tilly.
 
Upgraded from a Hunter Horizon 23 (tiller, obviously) to Sun Odyssey 30i last year. Sun Odyssey is the wheel option. Even on a 30 foot boat, you couldn't pay me to go back to a tiller. Glorious for marina manoeuvring, get her under sail on a heading, flick up the autopilot clutch and press the "auto" button, then just let her sail herself. Can't fault it.
 
Tilly Howard said:
As I get older, I find that sitting athwart ships while looking ahead is becoming more and more of a pain in the neck - literally! I am therefore hoping to convert my Westerly Centaur from Tiller to wheel steering. Incidentally, if anybody has done this before, or indeed as the bits and pieces needed to do it lying around in a corner of the garage, I would be very glad indeed to hear from you.
Tilly.
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Welcome.

Yes it has been done. however it is not easy, nor cheap. If you want a wheel steered boat, buy one that already has it fitted. Even DIY you will find the cost approaching the value of your boat.
 
Kwik Decision said:
I don't think anybody has mentioned another advantage of a tiller over wheel, which is that it is obvious at a glance which way the rudder is pointing.

I recently did a weeks training on a wheeled steered boat, and had to get in the habit of spinning the wheel one way and then t'other to get it central before setting of (2.5 turns lock to lock, so even if the mark were at the top, the helm could easily be hard over one way or another......). Very pleased to get back to a tiller!
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..... and therefore if the tiller pilot is on, you can instantly see if the sails are not balanced - which is why I would always stick with a tiller. Less to go wrong too but I thik that has alreday been mentioned :)
 
I had a 24' boat with a tiller, a 30' boat with a small wheel mounted on the forward bullhead of a centre cockpit and now have a 38' centre cockpit boat with a large wheel mounted centrally. Each was/is right for each boat and I wouldn't change any of them...
 
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