Do you need a personal/boat logbook to do RYA/DOT Exams/Certificates???

[Mark-1]

On another forum people were discussing the need for a completed logbook to do RYA/DOT Exams/Certificates. I must admit I'd always assumed the people who didn't keep log books could just write out a sailing CV or even just chat to the examiner about their sailing "career" and still do the exam/course.

Is there an RYA examiner on YBW who can tell me what, if anything, is acceptable in lieu of a formal personal/boat logbook?

Completely academic, just interested.

 

[john_morris_uk]

You don't 'need' a formal log book, but you must declare your mileage and hours as a skipper and as crew etc. You also need to satisfy the examiner that your claims are true!

Before you claim epic voyages round Cape Horn etc, remember that examiners have usually sailed a bit themselves and are quite likely to ask you some innocuous questions about bits of the passage and the ports you have visited.

The blank look on one or two faces when they realise that some of us might have actually sailed into the ports that they claim to have visited is always an interesting sight. To be honest, most people don't make silly claims and it soon becomes obvious if you haven't got the experience that you claim to have.

 

[Mark-1]

You don't 'need' a formal log book, but you must declare your mileage and hours as a skipper and as crew etc.

Thanks for the definitive (and fast) answer.

To be honest, most people don't make silly claims

I agree. I suspect there are millions of sailors who don't keep log books, in contrast there must be almost nobody who would choose to throw time and money away on sitting an exam they can't pass.

 

[Lady Campanula]

Here's another perspective....

During my first decade's sailing, I didn't keep a logbook, for the RYA's National Cruising Scheme hadn't been invented. During the second decade, I kept a logbook, for I reckoned someone might, one day, want to see it it. Then I lost it somewhere.

During the third decade, I kept a logbook, 'cos I'd decided it was high time I got some of them thar RYA sustificates, in case someone, somewhere wanted to see 'em.

During the last decade, I lost the previous logbook somewhere, and I haven't bothered since.

However, I've lost something something more valuable than the RYA's booklet. It's the 'primer' to remembering all those dozens of memories, of moments in a passage like the Coming of the Dolphins off Libenter, of everyone getting out of their pits on an icy morning in the Celtic Sea to watch the glowing Halley-Bop comet, it's the feeling of rounding the Fastnet Rock for the first time with other boats' lights all around, it's the dawn coming up in Biscay, with wet wooden decks, a light breeze, and only the boat and you awake. It's....

So I would suggest you keep a logbook, not for the RYA, but for you. Later.

 

[Tom Price]

[QUOTE You don't 'need' a formal log book, but you must declare your mileage and hours as a skipper and as crew etc QUOTE]

And the best way to 'declare' them is to produce a signed record, which is why the RYA produce their little booklet..

Coastal YM requires 5 passages over 60 miles, Offshore YM 2,500 sea miles, and every inch has to be authenticated by the skipper.

 

[Mark-1]

So I would suggest you keep a logbook, not for the RYA, but for you.

+1. (Although I use a notebook rather than the RYA logbook.)

 

[DavenHelen]

Coastal YM requires 5 passages over 60 miles, Offshore YM 2,500 sea miles, and every inch has to be authenticated by the skipper.

From RYA, Coastal YM requires:-

30 days, 2 days as skipper, 800 miles, 12 night hours (if you hold the Coastal Skipper course certificate this is reduced to 20 days, 2 days as skipper, 400 miles, 12 night hours). Half the qualifying sea time must be conducted in tidal waters.

Couldn't see anything about 5*60 passages?

 

[neale]

From RYA, Coastal YM requires:-



Couldn't see anything about 5*60 passages?

Isn't there a new regime of YM certificates now? I think the old CS is now the YM coastal, then you have YM offshore then YM ocean.

I think the 5 x 60nm passages is from the YM offshore. I know I had to have them going back a few years.

The YM coastal you are referring to I think is the old CS certificate.

 

[Tom Price]

[QUOTE Couldn't see anything about 5 x 60 passages QUOTE]

That's the prior experience required before starting YM Offshore.

 

[Lady Campanula]

I seem to recall that those 'lists of prior experience' were considered by the deeply-experienced examiners consulted to represent the minimum sea-time in which the requisite range of experience could be acquired.

Of course, it's a 'how long is a piece of string' concept, but it is a good stab at being a helpful guide to yotties. It's not Law of the Land, but 'guidelines'.

I'm also reminded that a majority of those who present themselves for YotMeister assessment have typically more than twice the minimum miles/hours, etc. 'under their keels'....

 

[neale]

When I turned up for my YM, I offered the examiner my logbook in which I had carefully made sure I met all the minimum criteria. "No Need" he said, "I'll soon know if you have enough experience to pass".

 

[Blue5]

Here's another perspective....

During my first decade's sailing, I didn't keep a logbook, for the RYA's National Cruising Scheme hadn't been invented. During the second decade, I kept a logbook, for I reckoned someone might, one day, want to see it it. Then I lost it somewhere.

During the third decade, I kept a logbook, 'cos I'd decided it was high time I got some of them thar RYA sustificates, in case someone, somewhere wanted to see 'em.

During the last decade, I lost the previous logbook somewhere, and I haven't bothered since.

However, I've lost something something more valuable than the RYA's booklet. It's the 'primer' to remembering all those dozens of memories, of moments in a passage like the Coming of the Dolphins off Libenter, of everyone getting out of their pits on an icy morning in the Celtic Sea to watch the glowing Halley-Bop comet, it's the feeling of rounding the Fastnet Rock for the first time with other boats' lights all around, it's the dawn coming up in Biscay, with wet wooden decks, a light breeze, and only the boat and you awake. It's....

So I would suggest you keep a logbook, not for the RYA, but for you. Later.

I keep a personal logbook of dates passages and miles, I think it just sort of happened as a follow on from aviation days where it is compulsory, I tend to fill it in before leaving the boat and it now seems to be automatic as one of the checks when leaving the boat. Yes I know its sad.........

Interesting Lady C did you ever lose a flying logbook?

 

[Tom Price]

[QUOTE
Couldn't see anything about 5*60 passages /QUOTE]

It's the prior requirement before starting YM Offshore.

Incidentally, RYA booklets G15 (Sail) and G18(Motor) may cost £5 or so, but the layout of complete syllabus, with instructors' signatures, space for certificates gained, AND that all-important precis of miles covered, gives an air of authenticity PLUS personal commitment which I expect when endorsing a recent passage.

 

[john_morris_uk]

[QUOTE
Couldn't see anything about 5*60 passages /QUOTE]

It's the prior requirement before starting YM Offshore.

Incidentally, RYA booklets G15 (Sail) and G18(Motor) may cost £5 or so, but the layout of complete syllabus, with instructors' signatures, space for certificates gained, AND that all-important precis of miles covered, gives an air of authenticity PLUS personal commitment which I expect when endorsing a recent passage.

I have no idea what you mean by the last statement, particularly about personal commitment. Are we recruiting for a vocational job here?

And although, a log book is a nice thing, all the signatures could still be made up. I usually give log books a bit of a cursory glance and then chat about the candidates sailing experiences for whatever the log book says, I am still required to satisfy myself that candidates have completed the required mileage etc to qualify to take the exam.

I addition to all this, mileage and qualifying passages are not the be all and end all though. There are plenty of people who have sailed thousands of miles and who are still not very experienced, and some people who have sailed a thousand miles and have gained far more experience. For better or worse, the RYA have decided that the miles and passages required are a good starting point for the standards required at the relevant qualification level. It seems to be a good balance, and the end result is respected throughout the world.

 

[Lady Campanula]

I addition to all this, mileage and qualifying passages are not the be all and end all though. There are plenty of people who have sailed thousands of miles and who are still not very experienced, and some people who have sailed a thousand miles and have gained far more experience. For better or worse, the RYA have decided that the miles and passages required are a good starting point for the standards required at the relevant qualification level. It seems to be a good balance, and the end result is respected throughout the world.

Wot he sed!



And as for flying logbooks ( NDH passim ), the blurry Flight Commanders kept finding them again for me.....

 

[john_morris_uk]

I have no doubt we agree about the miles and experience bit - but it was the statement, "...PLUS personal commitment which I expect when endorsing a recent passage." that left me bemused and/or confused. I don't know what point he is making that has anything to do with the subject except the common ground of miles claimed.

Not too worried about it all - but I would have liked to know what the post was on about.

 

[marklucas]

No requirement for a signed log book

All

There is no requirement to have a formally signed off log-book.

However, there is a the clear requirement to certain levels of experience: miles, passages and trips skippered.

Your examiner will want to be satisfied that whatever evidence (log book or otherwise is real). As has been posted, they will quickly catch you out if you're fibbing.

From personal experience, I sailed and raced a lot, didn't keep a log. Went straight to taking my YM Offshore. I just produced a little Excel spreadsheet with my summary of sailing. Examiner asked a couple of questions - job done.

It's still glued over the first page of my RYA log book - as much to make commercial clients happy, but also, again as has been posted of some memorable trips.

At the end of the day, whether you've done 2,350 miles or 2,650 miles makes no real difference. 200 miles is a bit different!

Remember, in the very old days, any YM could sign off a DS!!!!!

 

[snowleopard]

The RYA website doesn't say anything about requiring a logbook or that all the mileage is certified by anyone. I do recall from my own case that a lot of the miles in my logbook were a record of my recollections and not signed for by the skippers. I did have over 10,000 miles rather than the minimum 2500 so not a marginal case. What the website says for YM Offshore is:

Minimum seatime:
50 days, 2,500 miles including at least 5 passages over 60 miles measured along the rhumb line from the port of departure to the destination, acting as skipper for at least two of these passages and including two which have involved overnight passages. 5 days experience as skipper. At least half this mileage and passages must be in tidal waters. All qualifying seatime must be within 10 years prior to the exam.

 

[webcraft]

On another forum people were discussing the need for a completed logbook to do RYA/DOT Exams/Certificates. I must admit I'd always assumed the people who didn't keep log books could just write out a sailing CV or even just chat to the examiner about their sailing "career" and still do the exam/course.

Is there an RYA examiner on YBW who can tell me what, if anything, is acceptable in lieu of a formal personal/boat logbook?

Completely academic, just interested.

A logbook costs a fiver - or is given out free by some schools to candidates who don't present with one. It is an excellent way of keeping the apppropriate records and certificates. There is a section for previous experience which can be filled in to cover all preceding experience.

Frankly, if you are going to do practical RYA courses and want the certificates I can't see why you would object to using a log book in the RYA's preferred format until such time as you have done all the courses you want to - it is hardly a great imposition.

- W

 

[snowleopard]

Anybody keep entering passages in their log book after passing the YM? I couldn't be bothered but sometimes thought it might have been nice to have done so for the record.