Do we need the RNLI?

Now the rich/poor argument goes nowhere cos there are lots of people who scrape every penny to go sailing. The Somalia/Eritrea benchmark of poor seems a bit of a late justification for your stereotyping.

The RNLI do a fantastic job and I pay my Offshore membership fee, buy stuff from the catalogues etc. I do this because I think it is better run as a charity than it would be if it was a government agency. You are missing the key issue of the motivation of the RNLI crews who go to sea in a spirit of service and a spirit of adventure. If it was part of MCA say, then it becomes a job and other motivational factors come in to play. It would also be a lot more expensive to run cos a government agency would not run it with the flexibility that the RNLI do and you would also get a load of politicians arguing about the budget and location of lifeboats. It works and works well.

I agree that some people regard it as a maritime version of the RAC/AA but then that maybe takes you down the route of arguing for people taking boats to sea having proper qualifications and boats having an annual MOT type inspection.

Maybe somebody has ready-access to the statistics on call outs cos we could do with some facts as well as opinions. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
for the already quite well off boat owners...


[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe they should only save the lives of the poor ones then? /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Nothing is free including the police, fire service and ambulance we just pay for them in a different way.

How about because I may pay more council tax than someone in a smaller home I should get preferential treatment from the fire service?

People choose to donate to the RNLI because they see it as a worth while cause and more often than not by people who may one day need their service. It's not funded by everyone by way of tax.
 
Think your forgeting just one thing. The RNLI and there volunteers.

You would be distroying theere hobby and there vocation. Who else gets to play with expencive toys for free. Earlier on this year there was a wedding on a lifeboat in Weymouth. Beat that.

Just emagine how much fun we could all have, if at the sound of a buzzer, we could down tools and go boating and all free!!! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
I would be totally in favour of the state intervening and funding the service in its entirety

[/ QUOTE ] What, and let those twits turn it into another NHS? I hope I miss-read your post.
 
You've definately misread the post - see the bit in italics after the part you quote -

I would be totally in favour of the state intervening and funding the service in its entirety, if the present system didn't work

All this shaving has gone to your head ! ! (Sorry)
 
Re: Yes.

[The British government has a long and distinguished history of being unable to run a piss-up in a brewery. Everything they touch they mess up. From the NHS to the development of the Nimrod, performance is less than impressive.quote]

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree politicians should be kept as far away from anything that is running OK. think of the millenium dome, the spinnaker tower!

Politicians would insist on a charge for the service. to ensure it was paid there would be compulsary registration scheme, enforcement officers and fines. Now these enforcement offices should have the right to board any craft to check it is registered, now lets have some expensive mobos for them, now why can't they enforce a no drink sail policy - "do you have the keys to your boat in your pocket sir? " I can just see it Prescott would be fighting Blunkum (sic) for who can be in charge.

I am sorry but seeing a Police force that was employed to protect the public being turned into another revenue raising body spending so much time on speed camera issues I have lost the last vestige of hope for government run bodies.

However the original posts thrust is reasonable and I would not object to the introduction of charges for tows etc with two scales , one for members and another for non members. I will admit that through shear inertia I am not a paid up offshore member and I should be. While I have often donated I will now sign up at the LIB.

Guilty as charged your honour!
 
Salaried...

[ QUOTE ]
If it ever became a salaried organisation.........

[/ QUOTE ]
Quite a lot of the RNLI is salaried. Latest published accounts show over 1100 "full-time equivalent" employees at an annual cost in excess of £35 million, and with 26 employees being paid in excess of £50K. All employees are members of the defined benefit pension scheme; fund value over £100 million.
 
Re: Yes.

Not been to LIBS for years but I don't know how anyone gets past the good natured RNLI "Picket Line" at the bottom of the footbridge steps at SIBS without signing up.

I've been a Shoreline member since I got my first sailing dinghy about 22 years ago. I have been a "Govenor" (at well over the minimum subscription) since I got a boat capable of sailing offshore. I have been towed in once when becalmed in a shipping lane with a blocked fuel pipe. I gave the lifeboat crew a case of wine on that occasion. That wine and all my donations leaves me feeling still deeply in debt to the RNLI and the crew who turned out for me.

I get the impression that they treat the less than lifesaving shouts as training. Take along the less experienced crew and practice with the various systems, that sort of thing.
 
Re: Yes.

Made a load of unearnt money in the Thatcher days (Brit Gas, Banks etc) . Felt guilty so gave it to RNLI = Life Governor.

Closest to being rescued was when sailing with total prat (on yacht) engine failed near Dover. Told him would rather try to swim. (Only 300m off St Margarets) rather than the embarassment of being picked up by people I knew.

My own view is that having got yourself into the mess you get yourself out of it.

However in extremis glad the life boat is there and glad that it does not come under Transport Secretary or who ever.
 
Re: If it aint broke....

The best way forward would be to form a management team from NHS and CSA managers.

Im sure they could very quickly increase costs lower moral and turn "rescue" into a post code lottery.

Excellent idea???? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif PS Phillip H I meant this as an answer to the original post .clicked on yours by mistake.
 
[ QUOTE ]
People who correct or criticise grammar, spelling and sintax on this forum. (By the way, you can't throw an empty packet of cigarettes out of the window. Should be an empty cigarette packet.

Wouldn't be the same if the governmant ran it. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gifYou being a publisher an all.
The word is Touche not, got you, you b@stard /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I do however subscribe to the RNLI
 
Absolutely.

We should encourage the passing of legislation requiring the operators of rescue services to negotiate fair and reasonable prices for their services and if the conditions are not as described when they arrive then require an additional cooling down period for both parties to reflect amongst themeselves on their positions.

The goverment could them appoint a mediator at the earliest opportunity assuming it was not a holiday or a weekend or a friday afternoon, or raining, or too hot or too cold........

The RNLI do a fantastic job. If you were to have a commercial organisation do the same task then you would not have the same level of committment IMHO the RNLI tradition of going to assist those in distress is one of this nations greatest assets. Tread lightly upon their names.

Ken
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hope I miss-read your post.

[/ QUOTE ]

No dear boy, you did not misread, you simply didn't bother to read the whole sentence /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. Here, complete with the original emphasis is what it said:

<ul type="square"> I would be totally in favour of the state intervening and funding the service in its entirety, if the present system didn't work. [/list]

Anyway, I've been getting into too many daft arguments.
 
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Praps the existence of the RNLI allows those who don't think twice to get away with it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Or should it be: "Prhaps the existence of the RNLI ensures those who dont think twice to survive it." ?

If the the RNLI was struggling to make ends meet, and was not financially viable, then there might be an argument for changing the charitable status and method of funding. As it is it works. It works incredibly well. And a large number of people - not just us 'wealthy' (really!!??) yotties - are alive today because of them. And a number of lifeboat crew have given their lives trying. I do not hear their colleagues wanting to make a charge for their services, in fact very much the opposite - even when the rescued person is clearly a total idiot. RNLI crews are in fact at liberty to make a charge if they wish to, or to pursue a salvage claim. The only restriction is that they have to pay the cost of using RNLI boats and equipment if they do.

As long as it works as well as it does, leave it alone and let them get on with it says I.
 
Going by your profile, you live in a country, ie France where the rescue services charge you to be rescued.

In UK, we have the RNLI, funded by voluntary donations, and who provide the service free

What's the problem, or do you think it's not fair that you have to pay and we don't?
 
In respect of the filling in of forms.......
there certainly *are* forms-filling-in sessions for the Hon Sec and cox'n, engineer and often others, after a 'shout' is finished and before these guys can go home. One can imagine some very tired boat crews being asked some complex questions, when what they need is to get home and into their own beds. Some of this early-morning info goes into the Rescue Records Database, and that's one reason why some of the stuff that emerges - and is used by the MCA, RYA, RLSS and sundry yottie journalists - is suspect, to say the least.
 
I think the argument was trying to be more along the lines of us "boaties" do not value the RNLI very high and currently call them out at the drop of a split pin rather than resolve the problem ourselves cos otherwise its gonna cost us the next weeks marina fees to be towed in .... in that senario there is an alternative to the RNLI - its called Seastart and they'll happily come and get your boat running - for a fee ... granted, the RNLI do not offer a fix-your-boat service - just get you to dry land where you are Safe and can sort the problem out without greater danger to yourself and others.

Perhaps the issue was through frustration at the number of call-outs for seemingly trivial issues (eg mechanical drive failure where another source of drive is available) and I believe we should all be able to resolve most of the issues we get into without the aid of the RNLI - otherwise it would be running down to A&E everytime you cut your finger with a knife or running to the doctor everytime you sneeze ... but these services are there, to be used by anyone finding themselves in need (yup - cut finger 4 me, too deep though, and wouldn't stop bleeding) and you don't get charged per incident .... (just look at the cockup in funding/management though)
 
I guess it's all been said but I couldn't resist putting my two pence worth in. I don't contribute to the RNLI instead of other charities but as well as. I also don't contribute just for insurance for me but for everything else they do. Only those who want to contribute do so. It's at least twice as efficient as any govt dept knows how to be and probably more so than a lot of commercial organisations. I simply can't see why you want to change something that we appear to be so good at.
 
Re: Yes.

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That said, I'm amazed how many water users aren't members - PWC users and windsurfers etc.!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

There really are some silly people on this forum, have a dig at everyone else at any opportunity. What do PWC users have to do with this debate?

I am one of 100 PWC users who have raised more than 10K for the RNLI. I also do not know a single PWC user who I ski with who has yet had to make use of the RNLI for a breakdown, we buddy up and tow each other home when we suffer engine failure.

Many of us subscribe to the RNLI.

I was on a PWC on Saturday towing a broken down yaucht, I tow several yachts every year on my PWC. I tow as many PWCs, we all break down, the RNLI do not need to act as a breakdown service, boaters help one another all the time.

The RNLI do a hell of a lot, they are a very effective and efficient service - they spend their money wisely from what I have seen and are years ahead of other countries with government funded water based rescue services.

I do not see them as a service to people who own boats or sail - holiday makers (who at best only have an inflatable boat) during the summer months account for a good number of the RNLI rescues. I was in Newquay this summer, I saw the RNLI dealing with many children who were lost, stood on weaver fish, got into trouble swimming, I didn't see a single surfer in trouble.

My point, the general public who only ever see the coast on the odd summer weekend have very little knowledge of tides, wind and really don't understand the dangers. My guess is without the RNLI many more of these weekend holiday makers would die without the RNLI.

I would certainly be annoyed if I heard of anyone using the RNLI purely because they had run out of wind, and were being taken in the wrong direction by the tide.

I'm not an expert in sailing - I have sailed, I thought the idea was to put an anchor down and wait for conditions to improve.

Tired children isn't the RNLI's job - wet children, who are cold are in danger and thats a different matter.

No water, food etc for an overnight session - thats bad planning, but you won't die.

When collecting sponsorship money for the RNLI everyone I collected from had prase for what they do. However I have noticed the media has little time, the RNLI doesn't pull at the heart strings like cancer research etc which again is a very worth while cause.

If I ever had to be rescued by the RNLI due to a breakdown or any other reason I'd firstly be very imbarrased, I'd feel guilty for wasting a valuable resource and I'd make a good sized donation on top of what I already raise and pay into the RNLI.
 
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