Do we need the RNLI?

Sea Devil

Sea Devil

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If I were giving to charity there are a lot of others I would rather give to than the RNLI.

Historically there were good reasons for such an organisation but in a 'sport/hobby' that has become so widespread and commercial can you really justify asking people for donations, to support relatively wealthy peoples hobby?

Whilst search and rescue is an obligation of all seafarers and countries - the saving of life is frequently carried out by the Air force, Coastguard and Navy of maritime nations and pretty successfully.

If you want your boat rescuing - towing home - then why on earth should you not pay for a commercial tow like yachtsmen do in most places I have visited?

I am not saying the RNLI does not fulfil a useful role, saving life but why on earth can it not be run as a commercial operation and why should the public be asked to subsidise weekend sailors?
 
hm, it's a thought. RNLI dates from when britainnia ruled the waves, airpower didn't exist and thousands of brit seamen lost their lives every year almost as a matter of course. Not the same these days, and amazing that lots of help is provided absolutley free.
 
Here in Galicia the rescue services are provided by the state,the RNLI is a tradition born out of history and philanthopy when sailers where more or less treated as scum.Maybe there is aneed to reflect on what the RNLI does.
 
Free ? I thought if you were rescued and not a subscriber then a contribution was "encouraged" (cough cough).

dv.
 
I think you need to read the story and watch the TV coverage of those two boys last week who drowned, to realise that the RNLI is a unique a dedicated organisation. I realise your question was not a criticism of the RNLI but a question of their funding.

Put simply, holiday makers, yachtmen and Moboers slip a few bob into RNLI boxes as a form of insurance - a prayer to Neptune.

Wouldn't be the same if the governmant ran it.
 
Remember that yachts are not the only casualties the RNLI attend. I suggest you visit the Cornish village of Mousehole on Christmas Eve when the lights are turned off in memory of the loss of the whole crew of the Penlee lifeboat which had gone to the aid of a freighter in trouble in stormy weather some years ago. Go to the village pub and put your point of view there. The cox was landlord.
They also run many of the beach lifeguard services around the country. ILBs have performed miraculous rescues of people cut off by the tides in places where helicopter rescues were impossible.
Any yacht skipper who uses the lifeboats as a "get you home" service should voluntarily pay up. The worry is that if this is made compulsory skippers might be weighing the cost against the favour, and while doing so run into more serious difficulties.
Yes, we need an RNLI.
 
THe public are not forced to contribute. I like the idea of giving a few quid as a prayer to Neptune and a bit of insurance. It's interesting to see that most boats wear their RNLI Offhshore sticker like a Tax Disc- Look, I've payed. It's a great organisation and runs well because it is self regulating and not subject to the rubbish that a lot of organisations have to go through just to function. Add to that the fact that most of the crew are volunteers. This means there si no hidden agenda, need for pay rises etc and they are doing it because they want to.

The RNLI are totally non judgemental of the mistakes people make at sea, and that's what makes them special.
 
of course, i agree the rnli is fab etc etc. But no harm in discussing it.

Supposing, frinstance, there was a voluntary fire service the erm RNFI. In the event of fire, they wd down tools rush to fire station and sort out the fire, all with voluntary contributions for the rigs etc. I suppose insurance companies could bungem a few quid and we'd all do the same annd er hang about that's not a bad idea....
 
With the method of funding as it currently stands, the RNLI is free to provide the services & vessels it believe appropriate to the area. If that were to change to be a government body it would cost at least twice as much for a lesser service .. why? because government agencies are notoriously ineffecient and fat with middle managment.
Whilst I agree that any sea going vessel should not use the RNLI as a "free tow home", removing the "free" nature of the RNLI could sevearly affect our pasttime. And it is not just the "rich men" who would be affected - the RNLI help anyone in the water or mud.

Whilst self sufficency needs to be encouraged (surely a yacht could sail back home if the motor packs up) in an "emergency" the last thing a skipper needs to be worrying about is "this rescue is gonna cost me a £100 tow home" ... such a system would make boating more elitist as those on lesser budgets would think twice before setting sail.
 
The argument the RNLI themselves seem to favour is that by refusing government funding, they remain independent. A government-run organisation would be subject to all the same vagaries of funding and management fashions that the coastguard, fire service et. al. suffer. And it would not be long before rescued boats had a compulsory charge levied, just as it is in France. And there are enough tales of boats in French waters not calling out the lifeboat when they should have to concern me about that route.
It would lead to people hesitating before picking up the vhf, putting lives in danger and the driving force behind the RNLI is to prevent loss of life at sea.
 
[ QUOTE ]
In the event of fire, they wd down tools rush to fire station and sort out the fire, all with voluntary contributions for the rigs etc. I suppose insurance companies could bungem a few quid and we'd all do the same annd er hang about that's not a bad idea....

[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds like retained firecrew ... although they do get paid and it isn't voluntary funding
 
Yes.

Every civilised nation has some sort of lifeboat service; many of them are modelled on the RNLI whilst others are part of a Coastguard-type government body.

here is a little list...

So, it seems reasonable to assume that the need of a lifeboat service is widely felt.

Some are part of a Government system; some are voluntary.

It is often pointed out that the French lifeboat service is organised differently but the KNRM in Holland and the NSSR in Norway, to name but two, are organised like the RNLI, whilst in France the enthusiasm that, in Britain, Ireland, Norway, Switzerland* Holland and elsewhere, goes into the Lifeboats, goes into "les Pompiers".

(* No, I am not making that up. Lake Geneva has a volunteer Lifeboat Service. Bet you did not know that!)

So the real question that you are asking seems to be "should the Government take over the RNLI?"

I vote "no".
 
Already exists. I know that when my parents -who live in a village in Somerset -set the chimney alight a few years ago, the fire engine that turned up was manned by volunteers - apparently, it's very common in rural areas. Not sure if they get paid for call-outs. Same for the police - don't know what proportion of the total police force are made up by special constables, but must be significant. Do they get paid?
 
And it would not be long before rescued boats had a compulsory charge levied, just as it is in France.

That is the point I am making - why on earth shouldn't yachts people pay for the rescue service?

- There are lots of excellent charities - Medicine sans Frontier, Save the Children et al who really do need charitable contributions but do relatively wealthy boat owners?

Of course the RNLI do an excellent job but why a charity? Commercial organisations can do just as good a job its simply that the users have to pay for it. Saving lives is of course the big drum the RNLI beats (don't blame them for it) but a vast proportion of their work is not live saving or they are complementary to Air Sea search and rescue, fire services, coast guard. In no way am I rubbishing what the RNLI do - but other countries manage the same service without resorting to charity for the already quite well off boat owners...
 
i agree with all you say except the last bit about "thinking twice before setting sail" - which is a good thing rather than bad, really.

For novice (or any leisure) sailors in the UK, it is seemingly a "done deal" that they'll come out to pick you up. RYA qualifications show how to sail a boat - and how to call a Mayday on ch 16 if it all goes pear shaped. Not much need for bright ideas and practical ability to plug a hole, diagnose and fix the motor, rig a trysail, cut away rigging or any of that malarky for those YM courses no sir.

Altho i hate state intervention, i sort of agree with the list of stuff that must be on board a french-flagged vessel which varies according to its ofshore/coastal capabilities/range. At least it forces the "thinking twice". Charter boats aren't the worst at complying with mca regs but they are quite cute with fully-rusted toolkits and absolute minimum fire equipment.

Praps the existence of the RNLI allows those who don't think twice to get away with it?
 
Well why don't you give your money to the Charities you feel strongly about? I'm sure that most boat owners donate or make some other contribution to other charities as well as the RNLI. Nobody is forcing you to make contributions. You also keep on mentioning " The Rich Boat Owners". Are we? Are you?
 
Re: Yes.

The British government has a long and distinguished history of being unable to run a piss-up in a brewery. Everything they touch they mess up. From the NHS to the development of the Nimrod, performance is less than impressive. A government-funded service would be subject to budget cuts, and would be expensively bureacratic. The notable exception is the armed forces, which does an excellent job despite the politicians and the civil service, and the savage budget restrictions and poor equipment.

We have a long tradition in this country of voluntary work and voluntary contributions, which many other countries do not. I spent yesterday along with twenty other Red Cross volunteers practicing handling trained 'casualties', who had a variety of obvious and hidden injuries. We were outside, partly in the rain, with the casualties lying on steps, on wet concrete, in awkward positions and what have you. They were cold and wet, and completely dedicated to making sure we got proper training, as they debriefed us on what we did right, and what we did wrong. No one was paid a penny for taking part.

The life boats are the same, voluntary and effective. I am a yachtsman, and I help pay for it through the 'Offshore' scheme. I don't want Blair and Brown anywhere near it.

As DJE said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
 
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