Do most sailors really know how to sail?

[Foolish Muse]

It has long been held that one year of racing is worth 10 years of cruising. I'd believe that the learning curve is even stronger than that. Absolutely the best way to learn to sail a boat more efficiently is to take up racing. The trouble is that people who identify themselves as "cruisers" think of "racers" as being these highly competitive adrenaline nuts. At least in my case, nothing could be further from the truth.

I am an avid racer, getting out at least 30 times a year, but I'm not in the least bit competitive. I look at every race as just an excuse to go sailing. I rarely do the trophy races (which tend to be more competitive) and I hardly ever go to other club's races. I just do my own club's weekly beer-can races. But because of these races I know that I'll get on the water a lot more than someone who isn't racing. It's absolutely great to know that I'll be out on the water every Wednesday evening in the summer, and every second Sunday in the winter.

Of course this means that I'm out on days when the weather is not quite so nice, or even down right nasty. How many "cruisers" make an excuse not to get out on the water. "Oh it's raining" they complain, or "It's too windy" or "too cold". In the end all of these are nothing more than excuses that keep you at home, in front of the TV, and not out on the water where you should be.

So my recommendation to anyone who wants to become a better sailor is to start racing at the beer-can level. But don't worry at all about being competitive; just go out for fun and fun alone. You will soon find yourself getting better, faster and more efficient at sailing without even trying. It won't take any extra effort at all, other than getting your butt off the couch.

There is an old adage that a race occurs every time two boats are sailing in the same direction. I think that even "cruisers" would hold this to be true.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Anyone who has done a dinghy course will know how to sail a yacht efficiently.

I'm not at all sure about that. As far as reacting to small changes in wind goes, I think you are right, but your basic dinghy, like the Picos they use at my local place, doesn't have nearly as many sail controls as the average yacht. Of course the bigger dinghies are festooned with string, but I think you have to be doing RYA Level 3, 4 or above to start touching on more than sheet and kicker.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Of course this means that I'm out on days when the weather is not quite so nice, or even down right nasty. How many "cruisers" make an excuse not to get out on the water. "Oh it's raining" they complain, or "It's too windy" or "too cold".

That's me. I sail for fun, which in my case means avoiding rain, high winds and cold weather whenever possible. Sue me.

 

[Foolish Muse]

I sail for fun, which in my case means avoiding rain, high winds and cold weather whenever possible.

When I'm at the dock after a race in the rain or wind or cold of January, I can watch every single person on every other boat and EVERY one of them had fun! Everyone is laughing and telling stories about their adventure. Then they go into the bar for hot toddies and laugh and tell more stories. It's precisously on these bad weather days that nobody is even thinking of competitivness or who won the race. We are all just laughing about the adventure. That's Fun.

 

[pagoda]

I'm not at all sure about that. As far as reacting to small changes in wind goes, I think you are right, but your basic dinghy, like the Picos they use at my local place, doesn't have nearly as many sail controls as the average yacht. Of course the bigger dinghies are festooned with string, but I think you have to be doing RYA Level 3, 4 or above to start touching on more than sheet and kicker.

Never planned it that way-? windsurfing - dinghies - RYA2-5, eventually big boats then RYA coastal skip. I'm not obsessive about sail trim, but I like to go as well as possible. You can't just cleat off sheets and chat?

 

[JumbleDuck]

When I'm at the dock after a race in the rain or wind or cold of January, I can watch every single person on every other boat and EVERY one of them had fun!

Of course all the people who don't enjoy sailing on cold, wet, windy conditions will have been having fun elsewhere. Which is fine, isn't it?

Never planned it that way-? windsurfing - dinghies - RYA2-5, eventually big boats then RYA coastal skip. I'm not obsessive about sail trim, but I like to go as well as possible. You can't just cleat off sheets and chat?

My point was that more advanced sail trim isn't even touched on in basic RYA dinghy sailing, which I think refutes the claim (not yours) that "Anyone who has done a dinghy course will know how to sail a yacht efficiently". I don't, myself, just cleat off the sheets and chat but I am aware that the adjustments I do probably aren't optimal.

 

[Cantata]

.............There is an old adage that a race occurs every time two boats are sailing in the same direction. I think that even "cruisers" would hold this to be true.

Too right it's true.
I confess to having learnt to sail in the days before 'RYA Courses' when it was done by joining the local dinghy club, getting a crewing job in the racing and sitting up the front getting cold, wet and shouted at. If you were bright you chose one of the best helms to shout at you.
It must have been fun really as I kept doing it, every weekend.
Graduated to my own boat when I was 15 or so (spent my entire savings on a very second-hand Heron, remember those?), and progressed from there. Gave up about 50 years later.
So I can do sail trim, and can't bear it when it's all not quite right. And if you're near me on passage, yes I'll be tweaking.

 

[Ehecatl]

Not even close I would suggest.

A quick look at the RTI results from this year in the ISC (cruising) class show the winner finished with a corrected (and therefore in theory allowing for boat design) time of 7 hours and 13 minutes.

10% of 7 hours and 13 minutes is 43 minutes.

So to be within 10% of the best on that day you would have to finish with a corrected time of less than 7 hours and 56 minutes.

There were 701 finishers in the ISC classes.
66 of them finished with a corrected time of less than 7 hours and 56 minutes. So less than 10% of entrants were within 10% of the winner.

The ratio is slightly better in the IRC (racing) classes.
86 out of 464 finished within 10% of the winner on corrected time, so 18% of the finishers were within 10% of the winner. And I've just noticed that we were 85th, with a time almost exactly 10% worse than the winner!

I'm aware that the RTI is not a truly fair test because of the tide favouring the small boats, but taking one ISC class at random (where the tide can be assumed to be equal in relation to speed for all competitors) Only 11 out of 50 were within 10%.

YAWN!

 

[pagoda]

There is an old adage that a race occurs every time two boats are sailing in the same direction. I think that even "cruisers" would hold this to be true.

Been there ... done that Don't bother much if they have kevlar sails, but those with white stuff are always watched closely:encouragement:

 

[dom]

That's me. I sail for fun, which in my case means avoiding rain, high winds and cold weather whenever possible.

I don't want to rain on your parade here JD, especially knowing that you don't like the stuff, but I thought the weather was always like that in Scotland

 

[JumbleDuck]

I don't want to rain on your parade here JD, especially knowing that you don't like the stuff, but I thought the weather was always like that in Scotland

It was this bloody summer. And don't forget the midges.

 

[Wansworth]

When I bought our Albino Vega the previous owner was obviously a keen racer and he showed me how he had it rigged and all the stuff about moving the mainsheet carriage hither and thither and how easy it was ,clutching the tiller extension to adjust it........ well I left it in the middle and still overtake other boats .I guess if Inran into a fleet of Vegas it would put me on my mettle but without having someone to tell me how to apply the go fast tweaks I would never remember.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

When I bought our Albino Vega ....

Is that the white version?

 

[Wansworth]

No, just a naughty little SURFACE thingy that seems to think I need help with spelling.

 

[horatio_nelson]

I agree in general, however on the specific case of the RTI (When we can assume that everyone is at least trying a bit and following their interpretation of best route etc.) there are massive differences in time between very similar boats, and of course choosing the best route is part of sailing.

I don't actually think this is necessarily a bad thing. I was merely refuting the statement that no attention to sail trim etc can get you to within 10% of your boat's optimum. It can't. If you just hoist, sheet and forget you'll be more like 25% + down.
Fine if that's what you want, but if it's a conscious decision at least be honest about how much faster your boat could go if you were trimming it properly.

Talking of the RTIR and sail trim... This is a pic of my boat just past Ventnor in this year's race. I love the fact that my boat looks fantastic, of course, but it's interesting to look at the trim of the other boats' sails too - all sorts of things going on



The most basic rule I give is "pull the sails in just enough so that they stop flapping"

 

[grumpy_o_g]

I usually luff in a gust because it's less hassle than faffing around with mainsheets, especially with a tiller or a wheel with sensible gearing. I do agree with Flaming about when to do it though - I try to stop the boat getting over powered before I luff by heading up early - didn't think about watching the telltales too much though, which probably shows the different mindset.

 

[chrishscorp]

Centaur 2 does not have any wind detecting systems on it at all - no windex, no pennant, no tell tales.

I am also not sure that many of my fellow twin keelr sailors really know how to make them go. You cannot let them heel to much otherwise that windward keel gets too close to the surface and starts to cavitate in a most unpleasant way.

D

some cotton tied to the cap shrouds at head height works well.

Out in our Centaur today with it gusting to 31 knots, well heeled but no cavitation noise. When we first bought her there was a annoying noise with boat speed over 4.5 knots which we found was the propeller rotating the shaft so just locked the prop the noise stopped.

We do tweak the sails, but then sailed dinghy's for 14 years, old habits die hard

 

[GHA]

Is it fair to say that most cruising sailors don't know how to sail properly or are not bothered about doing so?

Different priorities completely for cruising sailors

On passage Vmg matters little, it's wbb that trumps all - what bits broke. wbb should ideally be zero, if the boat is quiet and going roughly in the right direction at a decent lick, then all attention can be focused on keeping wbb down to zero

 

[rotrax]

Different priorities completely for cruising sailors

On passage Vmg matters little, it's wbb that trumps all - what bits broke. wbb should ideally be zero, if the boat is quiet and going roughly in the right direction at a decent lick, then all attention can be focused on keeping wbb down to zero

Thats our philosophy too!

Our fat cruiser is not fast-except in 20knts plus when she really gets going-but is very comfortable, quiet and steady in motion and easy to handle..

After 45 years of Motorcycle racing in various disiplines and at various levels First Mate and I find it difficult to be enthused about racing at cruising yacht speeds.

Am America's Cup foiling cat might grip the imagination though.........................................

 

[Fr J Hackett]

pmagowan, I'm really not disagreeing! I fully appreciate that there are plenty of people for whom sail trim is a low priority, and that's absolutely fine.

I only wanted to point out to the poster who thought that by not paying any heed to trimming he was only 10% below his optimum that he was probably extremely optimistic.

The only time that I feel sad for other sailors and what I see as poor trim is when I see, as I do quite frequently in the Solent, someone struggling to make ground to windward in less than ideal conditions with poor sail trim then give up and motor. That's the time that I think a little bit more knowledge of sail trim would have made that sailor's day more enjoyable as they could have sailed more and motored less.

Come back to this a bit late, I did not infer that there would be a total disregard to trimming but that the average cruiser would not spend every minute attending to his sail trim and in so doing would be about 10% from his cruising speed, not a well set up and optimised boat. To continually try to sail a boat at it's optimum over a cruise of say 2 to 3 weeks may in total save half a days sailing time but would totally destroy the pleasure of the cruise. As has been said a lot depends on weather you are reaching or hard on the wind as to how far away from optimum you will be if you are not totally focused on sail trim. Over and above that with well worn sails there is only so much you can do and many cruisers have well worn sails.