Do I need a liferaft?

[Coaster]

PFD - means of surviving 20-45 mins in water...

We use our boat from April to September. We are never more than 12 hours from a safe port. If the weather forecast indicates a risk of more than F5 or thereabouts we stay in a safe place.

If our lifejackets (with crotch straps and sprayhoods) function properly surely we could expect to last in the water for more than 20 - 45 minutes?

 

[alant]

What is the water temperature in the Channel?

We use our boat from April to September. We are never more than 12 hours from a safe port. If the weather forecast indicates a risk of more than F5 or thereabouts we stay in a safe place.

If our lifejackets (with crotch straps and sprayhoods) function properly surely we could expect to last in the water for more than 20 - 45 minutes?

Of course you could survive in 'cold' water.

See

(1)http://www.rya.org.uk/sitecollectio...tracts/Extracts from winter 07/Cold shock.pdf

(2)
The Channel Swimming season is usually from late June to the end of
September/ beginning of October. ------

In June and early July the water is still warming up and can be anything
around the 14°C to 16°C (58 to 61°F) mark - but the days are longer and
the air temperature usually "warm".
At the end of July beginning of August the water is warming up - around
the 17°C (62°F) and the air temperature is still good but the weather can
be unsettled.
End of August and beginning of September the water should be about
18°C to 19°C - but the days are getting shorter and the air temperature is
often dropping to the 15°C 58°F mark.
Mid to the end of September the water is often at its warmest but the days
are short and the air temperature during daylight is often around the same
as the water temperature or lower. The nights are cold.

Ouzu accident - water temperature 18 deg C (September).
Survivors - nil.

Still think you could?

 

[Coaster]

Still think you could?

i.e. survive in the sea for more than 20 - 45 minutes, fully clothed, with a properly fitted and inflated lifejacket and a deployed sprayhood.

Thanks for the interesting link.

After a quick Google I found this information on monthly average sea temperature which will be representative for the waters we frequent. To summarize, rounding to the nearest degree C, April averages 9, May 10, June 12, July 14, August 15, September 15 and October 14. It's enlightening to see that the average sea temperature in December is significantly warmer than the April figure, by nearly 3 degrees C.

The RYA information relates to a person in water at 10 degrees C. During the first hour that person seems to have reasonable functionality, albeit with "shivering increasing in intensity". During the second hour things become significantly worse. After 4 hours there is "death from hypothermia".

So, based on the RYA info, it seems I'd be unlucky to peg out in less than 3 hours or thereabouts.

I think this underlines the difference between those of us in well populated coastal waters, where the emergency services are likely to be available within an hour or two, and the much smaller group of people who are well offshore. Certainly it would be sensible to carry a liferaft in the latter case.

So far as I'm concerned, my principal concern is falling in and not being able to get back on board. As a result the two of us each have a decent auto lifejacket with crotch straps, sprayhood and PLB. For us, this seems to be much more important than a liferaft.

Others will of course have different circumstances and perspectives.

 

[Thepipdoc]

Just found this.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxLj5eYtLHY


Rather worrying to say the least.

 

[Searush]

Just found this.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxLj5eYtLHY


Rather worrying to say the least.

Well, it sure seems like a long time & would seem much longer if you were sinking or afire but it was only a 2-min delay.

 

[scotty123]

Well populated - Pembrokeshire?

i.e. survive in the sea for more than 20 - 45 minutes, fully clothed, with a properly fitted and inflated lifejacket and a deployed sprayhood.

Thanks for the interesting link.

After a quick Google I found this information on monthly average sea temperature which will be representative for the waters we frequent. To summarize, rounding to the nearest degree C, April averages 9, May 10, June 12, July 14, August 15, September 15 and October 14. It's enlightening to see that the average sea temperature in December is significantly warmer than the April figure, by nearly 3 degrees C.

The RYA information relates to a person in water at 10 degrees C. During the first hour that person seems to have reasonable functionality, albeit with "shivering increasing in intensity". During the second hour things become significantly worse. After 4 hours there is "death from hypothermia".

So, based on the RYA info, it seems I'd be unlucky to peg out in less than 3 hours or thereabouts.

I think this underlines the difference between those of us in well populated coastal waters, where the emergency services are likely to be available within an hour or two, and the much smaller group of people who are well offshore. Certainly it would be sensible to carry a liferaft in the latter case.

So far as I'm concerned, my principal concern is falling in and not being able to get back on board. As a result the two of us each have a decent auto lifejacket with crotch straps, sprayhood and PLB. For us, this seems to be much more important than a liferaft.

Others will of course have different circumstances and perspectives.

"I think this underlines the difference between those of us in well populated coastal waters, where the emergency services are likely to be available within an hour or two, and the much smaller group of people who are well offshore."

Do you seriously consider Pembrokshire Coastal waters as being "well populated"?

Surely, that only happens when the Miners are on holiday, or inside Milford Haven!

Hardly the Solent - now thats what you might call "well populated"!

 

[Coaster]

Do you seriously consider Pembrokshire Coastal waters as being "well populated"?

Surely, that only happens when the Miners are on holiday, or inside Milford Haven!

Hardly the Solent - now thats what you might call "well populated"!

Pembrokeshire waters are populated enough for me, thanks. In September we crossed to Ireland and saw two other vessels en route. Coming back, there were four. That's ample.

I do not consider the Solent "well populated"; I regard it as grossly overcrowded.

 

[alant]

Three's a crowd perhaps?

Pembrokeshire waters are populated enough for me, thanks. In September we crossed to Ireland and saw two other vessels en route. Coming back, there were four. That's ample.

I do not consider the Solent "well populated"; I regard it as grossly overcrowded.

"Pembrokeshire waters are populated enough for me, thanks. In September we crossed to Ireland and saw two other vessels en route. Coming back, there were four. That's ample."

Hardly reinforces this statement then -

"I think this underlines the difference between those of us in well populated coastal waters, where the emergency services are likely to be available within an hour or two, and the much smaller group of people who are well offshore."

Hardly logical.

 

[oceanfroggie]

Well, it sure seems like a long time & would seem much longer if you were sinking or afire but it was only a 2-min delay.

But the lower tube chamber failed to inflate at all. it was reported that 20% of PFDs in circulation failed to inflate properly due mainly to poor care by their owners/users (eg loose bottles, wear and tear, etc). Safety kit needs to be looked after and maintained, otherwise it could prove useless.

 

[oceanfroggie]

If our lifejackets (with crotch straps and sprayhoods) function properly surely we could expect to last in the water for more than 20 - 45 minutes?

Sadly evidence post 'recovery' ops in British isles suggests otherwise. Floating is not the issue, surviving the cold and body trauma is. There are many factors that can adjust these times up or down such as general health, fitness, age, water and air temp, wind chill factor, clothing worn, rate of body heat loss, spray, etc.

I remember well many years ago our flight safety instructor warning us that average survival time in winter sea around these islands varied between 15 and 25 mins for a fit male, unless a survival suit or wet/dry suit was worn which dramatically increased survival times due slowing down of body heat loss. Otherwise a lift jacket was just an aid to recovering a body.

Few winters ago kayakers perished only 100 yards from shore line as they couldn't make it to shore in the cold (ie body muscles impaired). Late summer few years ago, sadly a couple wearing PFDs perished from cold rather than drowning only a few hunded meters from shore.

The general advice is stay out of cold water as long as possible. If forced to abandon, do it as late as poss (ie step up into a life raft rather than down into one)

 

[alant]

Yippee!

Sadly evidence post 'recovery' ops in British isles suggests otherwise. Floating is not the issue, surviving the cold and body trauma is. There are many factors that can adjust these times up or down such as general health, fitness, age, water and air temp, wind chill factor, clothing worn, rate of body heat loss, spray, etc.

I remember well many years ago our flight safety instructor warning us that average survival time in winter sea around these islands varied between 15 and 25 mins for a fit male, unless a survival suit or wet/dry suit was worn which dramatically increased survival times due slowing down of body heat loss. Otherwise a lift jacket was just an aid to recovering a body.

Few winters ago kayakers perished only 100 yards from shore line as they couldn't make it to shore in the cold (ie body muscles impaired). Late summer few years ago, sadly a couple wearing PFDs perished from cold rather than drowning only a few hunded meters from shore.

The general advice is stay out of cold water as long as possible. If forced to abandon, do it as late as poss (ie step up into a life raft rather than down into one)

Thank the Lord, someone else with a ray of sense!

Won't last for long though, you'll never get anywhere quoting facts & will probably be villified by the 'strong swimmer in arctic cold water, so why bother with a lifejacket, my feet are webbed, never happen to me' brigade, who seem to frequent the nether regions on these forums when it comes to these topics .

 

[volvopaul]

You will always wish you had bought one when its time to jump into it.

I too next year will be investing in a new one next year rather than having my present one serviced, even though we only coast hopp, as said you can perish 100 metres from the beach in the wrong weather.