Do I need a chartplotter

[colhel]

I have Navionics on hudl2 and smart phone. I have found my way around at night and fog without hitting anything. I have paper charts and gps giving lat and long and also an old laptop with open cpn which i generally only take on longer trips and even then it's rarely used. I've got the Absolute Tides App and Boatie App. I don't have radar or AIS.

 

[Vega1447]

I have Navionics on hudl2 and smart phone. I have found my way around at night and fog without hitting anything. I have paper charts and gps giving lat and long and also an old laptop with open cpn which i generally only take on longer trips and even then it's rarely used. I've got the Absolute Tides App and Boatie App. I don't have radar or AIS.

Also have Navionics on a Hudl.
Just back from a week's cruise on a charter yacht on Irish SW coast.

Yacht had factory fitted cockpit plotter but the cheapo Navionics + Hudl (in waterproof pouch) was easier to use and very glad I brought it.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I have a chart-plotter at the helm and also multiple devices with navionics .....

The advantages of a chart plotter are:-

The battery never goes flat
It is weatherproof
It is readable in direct sunlight
It isn't loaded with any other software that could make it go t**ts-up at a critical moment.
It integrates with my AIS Radio and Autopilot allowing me to predict collisions with commercial vessels, set tracks on the plotter and follow them with the auto-pilot.

If you don't need any of these features, or have other ways of mittigating the disadvantages of consumer electronic devices (charger at the helm, weatherproof case, bright enough screen, backup device) then no, you don't need a chart-plotter. They are a luxury.

Health Warning: Navigating with paper charts will probably be touted as perfectly adequate by some members of this forum, and the need for any kind of electronic aid questioned, for me however paper charts are the last resort after all 7 other Plotter and GPS capable devices on board have either failed or run out of power (You do need to be able to use paper though). I sailed with my parents in the 70s and 80s, navigating for my Mum (I was 10 at the time) when we took a week long sailing course on our boat. Paper charts, fixes taken from lighthouses, buoys and landmarks, constant referals to tide tables, almanacs and pilot book, we even had an RDF - I don't give a monkeys what anyone says, the opportunity for human error is ever-present .... and what a right royal pain in the a**e it was compared to what is available today, even if it was interesting - you'd either have to be mad or a masochist not to use modern technology IMHO.

PS: If you charter alot then "bring your own device" is a fantastic advantage of Navionics ... and in an emergency, any internet browser capable device can look at this .... https://webapp.navionics.com/

 

[john_morris_uk]

No you don't need a dedicated plotter.

We've managed perfectly well for years using a GPS and paper charts. (I can manage without the GPS but it's hard work and a pain in the backside. )

You don't NEED to have the plotter within sight of the helm, although there are obvious and good reasons why you might choose to have it there.

Having said that some people seem addicted to driving their boats round the screen. (And now and again you hear stories about how some of them forget to look up and look at the other instruments like the echo sounder sometimes. Guess which boats run aground more often!)

We've now got a fancy large screen plotter, but I often just look at Navionics on my phone.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I note you say you've got absolute tides etc. Presumably you've got an almanac on board?

 

[colhel]

yes I have an almanac but Absolute Tides imho comes 2nd to Navionics in usefulness. As far usability I know a dedicated plotter is more stable, but i can protect it from the rain and can see it in sunlight albeit not as easy but i'm only doing about 5 knots , i can charge it on board and have spare batteries (really cheap now). Just seems plotters have become a standard feature.......One day I will fit the one I bought 2 years ago

 

[LadyInBed]

Col, what you have is adequate as you don't have any other electronic kit like AIS which is great linked into a plotter.
You don't mention autohelm, which is also useful linked to plotter but is model dependant.

 

[[70521]]

Do I need a chartplotter

Non, as the French say.

I've used paper charts and a hand held GPS for years, new boat this year with a chart plotter at the helm that rarely gets looked at.

Being an old fuddy duddy I till do my navigation on paper and the check it against the GPS, if I am within 1/4 a nautical mile I am happy.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

.....

You don't NEED to have the plotter within sight of the helm, although there are obvious and good reasons why you might choose to have it there.

Having said that some people seem addicted to driving their boats round the screen. (And now and again you hear stories about how some of them forget to look up and look at the other instruments like the echo sounder sometimes. Guess which boats run aground more often!)

................

Having a chartplotter at the helm is something I would specify on any boat these days. I have AIS data, Tidal data, Charts and that Oh-so-wonderful link between plotter and autopilot which I use all the time - in fact my plotter is an extension of my auto-pilot control, I wouldn't put that 'downstairs'.

With this setup everything is at my fingertips ....

To be honest, paper charts or plotter, an idiot is an idiot and will run aground or cause an incident whatever navigation aids are available to them, now and then you hear of people who collide with other boats because they've popped downstairs to update their paper log or plot their position on a chart.

When I sailed with my parents as a kid, there was no GPS or Plotters and certainly no shortage of people running aground. Ardinamir Bay on Luing was one which always caused problems and Irene McLachlan would come out of her cottage to shout at the wayward yachtsmen about to hit the rocks. Incidentally, my boat is named after her cat, McKelvie.

 

[colhel]

My paper charts are purely a back up but i do plot my last known position on channel crossings or longer coastal trips. I've got a stand alone tiller pilot (and a spare)

 

[Mark-1]

Irene McLachlan

There's a name you don't hear so much these days. I suppose even Nostalgia isn't what it used to be!

 

[SimonFa]

I have both Navionics and iSailor on my iPad and iPhone for the diversity. I also have VisitMyHarbour on my Laptop as backup, but like OP rarely used once underway except for close to shipping lanes when I set it up with my iAIS for CPA alarms but as its not in the cockpit that's not a lot of help single handed but it warns me to check iSailor as the alarm doesn't work when the screen is off and then use its CPA function.

I have found Tides planner just as accurate as my almanac.

I have a chart-plotter at the helm and also multiple devices with navionics .....

If you don't need any of these features, or have other ways of mittigating the disadvantages of consumer electronic devices (charger at the helm, weatherproof case, bright enough screen, backup device) then no, you don't need a chart-plotter. They are a luxury. [and below is what I do]

The advantages of a chart plotter are:-

The battery never goes flat

Partly why I have both iPad and iPhone aps so I can ensure at least one is on charge. Having said that there was one of those A Question Of Seamnaship articles in a recent YM where the batter did go flat, but that's unlikely.

It is weatherproof

I use these https://griffintechnology.com/us/collections/survivor.

It is readable in direct sunlight

Yes, that's a pain especially single handed. It also sucks the life out of the battery as you need the screen on full brightness. It is manageable, though, by only using it when essential and keeping it charged.

It isn't loaded with any other software that could make it go t**ts-up at a critical moment.

Yep. I close all other apps. You also don't need email alerts or similar coming through at critical moments. This also saves on battery life.

It integrates with my AIS Radio and Autopilot allowing me to predict collisions with commercial vessels, set tracks on the plotter and follow them with the auto-pilot.

iSailor integrates with my iAIS and I believe other WiFi based AIS. Via AIS it can also read the NMEA0183 words from my GPS, unfortunately it doesn't export everything I need but if it did you could use it for all instruments. It can also send to my ST4000 auto-helm with the right GPS.

I have also found that plotters were overly complicated, proving more features than was necessary so you spend a lot of time leaning, which has to be on the boat, and its easy to get confused. That may be just the ones I've seen though.

For the avoidance of doubt I carry all the charts, almanacs and pilot guides for everywhere I go as a backup.

Advantages of having a tablet/phone based plotter:

It isn't that it isn't confined to the helm, when you want to do work on it you don't get in each other's way which was a problem whenever I've used one on school boats.

It can be taken away from novice helms to stop them getting transfixed, again seen on a school boat.

You can set up you routes in the comfort of your arm chair before departing for the boat.

 

[dom]

Colin, I agree with the consensus here: a chartplotter is nice, not a must. As Nigel says AIS is useful, but some tablet chart packages (not Navionics) allow AIS overlays. BTW I only have an old 'Almanac', but keep a little cheapo book of tides.

It turns out I have two Chartplotters on the boat, which I use for AIS protection zones, Anchor drift, AP Routing, etc ...and also as additional handy data display units. In truth, if you're not running these ancillaries, there's prob not much point.

In truth he iPad gets far more use and it's fantastic for general Googling around, getting telephone numbers, checking TripAdvisor, etc. I also use TidesPlanner, Vesper, Weather Apps, C-Map and other assorted marine apps.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Just remebered, dependent on how your positioning works on your consumer device, if for some reason GPS isn't available or accurate it might "invisibly" revert to WiFi based guesstimation without it being apparent. Obviously quite dangerous if you're trying to use it for pilotage. A good plotter will have WAAS which will be better than what a consumer electronics device might be capable of. The location components in CE Devices have subtly different basic requirements to those needed for navigation, e.g. WiFi and gyro based guestimation is better than nothing when indoors, IP address based is 'good enough' for many location based services, I don't really trust software engineers for mobile phones and tablets to apply the same rigour to their location APIs as I would expect from a dedicated marine plotter or aircraft/vehicle navigation system.

The WAAS specification requires it to provide a position accuracy of 7.6 metres (25 ft) or better (for both lateral and vertical measurements), at least 95% of the time.[2] Actual performance measurements of the system at specific locations have shown it typically provides better than 1.0 metre (3 ft 3 in) laterally and 1.5 metres (4 ft 11 in) vertically throughout most of the contiguous United States and large parts of Canada and Alaska.[3] With these results, WAAS is capable of achieving the required Category I precision approach accuracy of 16 metres (52 ft) laterally and 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) vertically

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Area_Augmentation_System

My plotter uses WAAS and when you have a WAAS fix it is better than anything you could work out manually.

 

[GHA]

I have Navionics on hudl2 and smart phone. I have found my way around at night and fog without hitting anything. I have paper charts and gps giving lat and long and also an old laptop with open cpn which i generally only take on longer trips and even then it's rarely used. I've got the Absolute Tides App and Boatie App. I don't have radar or AIS.

I would agree with the no's. Though if you feel like buying the boat and yourself a present then Sony xperia tablets can be picked up pretty cheap ex display on ebay, screen fine under the sprayhood in sunshine and waterproof. Then for a few quid more fit an ais reciever and a Raspberry Pi to beam ais around to any waiting wifi apps and the excellent Opencpn ais display. Still less power than a chart plotter, nice though they are

 

[john_morris_uk]

Just remebered, dependent on how your positioning works on your consumer device, if for some reason GPS isn't available or accurate it might "invisibly" revert to WiFi based guesstimation without it being apparent. Obviously quite dangerous if you're trying to use it for pilotage. A good plotter will have WAAS which will be better than what a consumer electronics device might be capable of. The location components in CE Devices have subtly different basic requirements to those needed for navigation, e.g. WiFi and gyro based guestimation is better than nothing when indoors, IP address based is 'good enough' for many location based services, I don't really trust software engineers for mobile phones and tablets to apply the same rigour to their location APIs as I would expect from a dedicated marine plotter or aircraft/vehicle navigation system.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Area_Augmentation_System

My plotter uses WAAS and when you have a WAAS fix it is better than anything you could work out manually.

It certainly is better and I wouldn't be without it.

However the point I was making was that people get addicted to the accuracy and believe that the screen can't ever lie. Some then sail off to waters that aren't as well charted and start hitting things. "But the plotter said I was in clear water."

 

[Baggywrinkle]

There's a name you don't hear so much these days. I suppose even Nostalgia isn't what it used to be!

It's amazing how many people have met her .... "YOU'RE GOING THE WRONG SIDE OF THE BUOY!!!" could be regularly heard while at anchor in the bay, waiting for the tide to change so you could get through the Cuan Sound .... wonderful memories .... I guess most boats are a bit too big for Ardinamir these days.

... sorry about the thread drift.

 

[Mark-1]

VisitMyHarbour

I find this absolutely superb. Anything I read in a Pilot Book or Reeds I double check from VMH on the basis that the Paper on a isn't as regularly updated as the website. As a significant bonus VMH has endless snippets of detail that don't make it onto paper. (Music festivals in Chi for instance - you don't find that in Reeds.)

 

[Mark-1]

However the point I was making was that people get addicted to the accuracy and believe that the screen can't ever lie. Some then sail off to waters that aren't as well charted and start hitting things. "But the plotter said I was in clear water."

Reliance on incorrect /incomplete chart data is not a problem specific to the format it's presented in. Charts on Paper would give an identical outcome.

 

[johnalison]

It depends on where you sail. If you only cruise along the South Coast, you only need to remember to keep England to starboard when going west and to port when going east. Even sailing to France is not unduly complicated; if you head south you are almost bound to get there. If you can stay awake, you probably won't hit anything.