Do Bavaria exceed CE Cat A?

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haydude

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I know that Dufour Yachts declare in their manual that their yachts exceed the specifications of CE Cat A (up to F8 4m waves) stating that they can take wind force exceeding F10 with waves above 7m.

I was wondering if there is a Bavaria owner who could double check his manual to see if Bavaria makes a similar declaration.

As a curiosity, what about also Jeanneau and Beneteau?

Thank you.
 
Tranona may be the best to answer your question but..:D

my raggy is a somewhat rarish '97 Bav 46 Exclusive. It has LLoyds 100A approval and sports deep keel and tall rig. I expect it would meet cat A.. dont know about the newer ones.

Dont believe all the negative comments. The problem boats were RACING boats. Mine sails well and fast is very solid and has a gorgeously finished interior. Bavaria started out as a custom yacht builder....
 
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Actually I am considering Bavaria because of their value for money, hence the question. Still jokes and comments about Bavaria are somewhat concerning.
 
On the negative side, there was a piece in PBO about a brand new Bav which was refused coding due to standing rigging held together with shackles (!) and a chainplate whose mounting bolts were not through the backing plates. Like everything you buy, it seems, the design spec is probably suitable but the product needs fettling before it meets the spec.

It brings back memories of buying a (non-boaty) product from an American manufacturer who admitted that the fault found in an ion gun was due to the fact that they were assembled by temporary Mexican workers who could not read the instructions - so they couldn't steal the design!

Rob.
 
ha ha ha

haydude said:
Actually I am considering Bavaria because of their value for money, hence the question. Still jokes and comments about Bavaria are somewhat concerning.
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Still jokes and comments about Bavaria are somewhat concerning

Jokes and comments normally from buyers of yachts of other makes who have realised that they have been ripped off, it makes them feel a little better.

As far as the original question no just CAT A no more no less.
 
Haydude:
Don't worry about the jokes. The large numbers of them particulary in charter fleets in the Med, demonstrate that they can take a pounding.
If you want to be derogatory about any make of boat, you can find occasions/instances of rigs, keels, osmosis, poor interior quality etc, etc.

As a friend who ran a Scottish boat yard's repair shed for over 10 years said, none of 'em are immune to having an idiot at the helm.....hence the repairs and "probems".

Bavarias offer a lot of boat for your money, have brought many people into sailing due to the good financing and good value offered. Respect them for what they are.

To counter the opinions expressed on this forum:
1. Phone up a few different surveyors and talk to them about what you are proposing to buy and on the basis of finding out what they charge for a survey, ask their opinions of what to look out for from a range of different boats.
2. phone a few different brokers (particularly ones that are not aligned to a particular builder) and get their views

Are they unsafe ... no
do their masts fall down ... no
do their keels fall off ... no
well, no different from any other make of boat if it is poorly maintained, sailed or abused

Do I own one, want one or have any interest in them ... no
Am I irritated by the continual mis informed rubbish posted about them ... yes
 
Monique said:
The problem boats were RACING boats.
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I realise you're just trying to add balance to the usual Bav-basher debate, but the Bavaria Match range were cruiser racers NOT out and out racing boats. They were Bavaria's attempt to compete with Beneteau's First range. I imagine a fair proportion of those sold would've been used just as cruisers, which is why the keel falling off one was worrying and why Bavaria's poor response was even more worrying.

That said, I've raced on a Bavaria Match and done about 1,500 miles worth of deliveries on it and the keel stayed on. It's a shame there were problems with the detail of the design and construction, and such a mishandled reaction to the keel-loss incident, because I think a MkII would've been a good boat that would've competed well with the First range.
 
I wonder if you can "exceed" Cat A?? Sounds like marketing speak to me, and I would never choose between boats on such a basis. Anyway most owners and crews don't exceed Cat A themselves :) so why worry. The boat (Bavaria or otherwise) is likely to be afloat long after the lifeboat has taken you off!

PS - the Bavaria cruising range are FAR better engineered than all the garbage you read on this forum. I've looked at lots this last year along with Beneteaus and Jeanneaus, and although there have been some build issues (e.g leaks) in the last 10 years, nothing I've seen or heard would compromise the safety of the boat...just annoying niggles for the owners until resolved under warranty.
 
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One thing that impresses me about Bavaria is that all of them, and I say all of them have Selden spars When I compare them to Bens, Jens and Dufour most of them have flimsier ZSpars. If I ever had to replace my spars, sure I would go for Selden.

Also genoa and mainsheet cars and tracks look solid (can't remember the make), not like that Lewmar rubbish that most french boats have.
 
bluedragon said:
Anyway most owners and crews don't exceed Cat A themselves :) so why worry.
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I sail regularly in F6 which likely turns into F7 and occasionally F8 on cross channel passages. That is normal life for one who lives by the English channel (not the Solent which is a particular case) and if I didn't I would hardly ever be sailing. Hence exceeding Cat A is important for me to stay well below the limits.
 
gardenshed said:
Haydude:
Don't worry about the jokes. The large numbers of them particulary in charter fleets in the Med, demonstrate that they can take a pounding.
If you want to be derogatory about any make of boat, you can find occasions/instances of rigs, keels, osmosis, poor interior quality etc, etc.

As a friend who ran a Scottish boat yard's repair shed for over 10 years said, none of 'em are immune to having an idiot at the helm.....hence the repairs and "probems".

Bavarias offer a lot of boat for your money, have brought many people into sailing due to the good financing and good value offered. Respect them for what they are.

To counter the opinions expressed on this forum:
1. Phone up a few different surveyors and talk to them about what you are proposing to buy and on the basis of finding out what they charge for a survey, ask their opinions of what to look out for from a range of different boats.
2. phone a few different brokers (particularly ones that are not aligned to a particular builder) and get their views

Are they unsafe ... no
do their masts fall down ... no
do their keels fall off ... no
well, no different from any other make of boat if it is poorly maintained, sailed or abused

Do I own one, want one or have any interest in them ... no
Am I irritated by the continual mis informed rubbish posted about them ... yes
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Well said.
All of the popular makes are built to a price, and as a result construction is to a lightweight but adequate standard. If anyone wants a heavy duty build quality yacht suitable for round the world sailing there are plenty of other makes, at suitably heavy duty prices. For most leisure sailors the mass production boats by Bavaria, Beneteau and Jeanneau are all perfectly adequate.

Bavaria managed to get their production costs low enough to offer more boat for the money than the others, but at one time this was partly at the expense of some fittings being a size smaller than I would have liked. The sheer numbers in use and on charter shows that they are fit for purpose, and most of the designs sail pretty well in to the bargain, and sail even better when the original sails wear out and the owner buys better ones.
 
I think Bavaria's are great boats. But I do love how every time a Bav thread starts you get an owner saying something like "I actually have an early/late/custom/blue/tripple masted/round widget one; sure other ones have problems but mine's fine"

Face it guys, you bought a Ford not a BMW, no need to apologise for it, a new Mondeo beats an old Contessa/Twister er sorry, Morris Minor anytime.
 
Our 2000 build says Cat A ...

As said above - the boat will last longer than the crew ...

Really - you don't need to worry about the keel falling off - 1 or 2 instances doesn't make it a widespread problem and iirc it was limited to the Match42 ... Correction to original statement following post by flaming

Yes - it is a production built boat - and you can see that if you look ... but the structure is (generally) sound and the niggles are mostly cosmetic.
 
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Okay that was a bit of a tongue-in-cheek comment...BUT how can you exceed CAT A?? There is no Cat A1 or A+ or whatever, or any criteria laid down to my knowledge? Actually any Cat A boat "exceeds" the minimum criteria or it wouldn't have the category...or am I missing something here??
 
Just about all, no all, the anti Bav drivel that appears on the forum comes from people who have never even set foot on one, let alone sailed one. I see you have not made many posts on here, but I'll assume you may have been watching threads, and therefore will know all too well that there are many armchair experts who in reality know little or nothing of their subject. People who have only had at most a fleeting glance at a boat but at once consider themselves proficient enough to advise others.
 
It think it is nice that they have CE cat A... but in reality this is a bit disengenuous IMO... I think you need to look at other common sense factors and then match this with your sailing expectations to decide if the boat is suitable...

So, what is the AVS, the deck layout, weight of the boat, sail inventory, rudder design..

Different Bavarias will come out differently and will suit different uses... for instance, the 36 of 2002-2006/7 vintage has a AVS of only 110', which I would think a bit narrow for any major offshore cruising... Versus my 1999 vintage 31 has a avs of 135', but with the high freeboard and light weight it is not terruibly comfortable in short sea's....

I would not hesitate in buying a Bavaria, (I already have one... and BTW... its the bestest one as well.....!!) but you need to think beyond the CE cat mark.... Frankly Dufour saying that their boats will withstand F10 and 7 meter seas is total *******s... a breaking sea beam on with a height greater than the beam of the boat will capsize any yacht...
 
Similar to Photodog's comment, what are you really asking Haydude? Is it comfort / seaworthiness, or the boat breaking-up underneath you? Two entirely different issues IMO.
 
haydude said:
I sail regularly in F6 which likely turns into F7 and occasionally F8 on cross channel passages. That is normal life for one who lives by the English channel (not the Solent which is a particular case) and if I didn't I would hardly ever be sailing. Hence exceeding Cat A is important for me to stay well below the limits.
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I agree that F8 & 4m waves is not a high requirement, but is F8 & 4m waves not the upper limit of Cat. B? I don't know what the upper limit of Cat A is.
 
Muddy Paws said:
I think Bavaria's are great boats. But I do love how every time a Bav thread starts you get an owner saying something like "I actually have an early/late/custom/blue/tripple masted/round widget one; sure other ones have problems but mine's fine"

Face it guys, you bought a Ford not a BMW, no need to apologise for it, a new Mondeo beats an old Contessa/Twister er sorry, Morris Minor anytime.
Click to expand...

Spot-on! Half the price, for 99.9% of purposes just as good, but the "wrong" badge for the snobs. It's an analogy I've often used in boating discussions.
 
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