Ditch the Engine part 2-meet the "Oarclub" founder

[Thirdman]

http://cityguide.bellinghamherald.com/fe/outdoors/stories/153651.html
Thanks for the responses to my original post yesterday.
The orignal post urging you to ditch the engine and the "Oarclub" website has aroused some interest I see with responses, most of them somwhat negative. But thats OK.
First off - the "Oarclub"is a non-profit Sailing Club out of Puget Sound USA. They offer FREE sailing lessons (also free lessons on splicing, rigging, sailmaiking) to anyone interested in learning to sail without Engine reliance. Obviously a bit difficult for those in the UK, but there are members all over the World.
I am not the founder of the "Oarclub" nor have I anything to do with the website.
To learn more of the founder please follow the link to a local newspaper story at the end of this post to learn more about the founder - Jay Fitzgerald, a truly remarkable man and a magnificently skilled sailor.
http://cityguide.bellinghamherald.com/fe/outdoors/stories/153651.html


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[graham]

Re: Ditch the Engine part 2-meet the \"Oarclub\" founder

I sail in the Bristol Channel.Not long ago most boats had a sweep oar and a rowlock fitted in the transom.

Probably because engines tended to be "marinised"car engines cement mixer engines and so on.That combined with the wonderful "Stuart Turner" meant you never over relied on the engine to start .

With modern marine diesel engines so reliable and British harbours being crowded in Summer. Unless you have the luxury of endless time on your hands for most of us an engine is a neccessity.

I still carry a sweep oar aboard my 22 footer and use it to turn the boat in confined spaces sometimes or to scull very short distances at about 2 knots if its flat calm.

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[tcm]

Free sailing lessons with no engine

I wonder what this is like? Superficially, free sailing lessons might seem great. Mind you, if you aren't paying, then they could go anywhere and you don't have much sway if at all. And with no engine you could be on board for days and days dodging about. Presumably, since he doesn't belive in engines, there's a whole other load of things he won't believe in either: electronic instruments and gas cookers i spect, which partly explains why there's no charge. In fact, I would probably end up charging the no-mates skipper to listen to his yabbering on and on.

(I am just giving them a hard time cos they are publicising their site on a competing boaty site, so this is fair enough innit? Bit like advertising your new marina by nipping round to another marina with a big sign and walking up and down the pontoons)

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[webcraft]

Re: Free sailing lessons with no engine

I think you're being a bit harsh, TCM

I hardly see the Oarclub site as competing in any way with this one, and I think that their primary aim - to improve boat handling under sail - is laudable.

I don't think they are going to convince many of us to convert our diesels to mooring weights . . . but I find thier attitude encouraging.

My engine is 30 years old and not entirely well . . . however, it starts every time and will push the boat along at 4 knots before it begins to get distressed, so I'm not to worried. I'm happy to go out cruising with an engine I regard as maybe 90% reliable and trust to my sailing skills for the other 10%

A friend - sadly gone now - who had a small charter company once got an irate call from a charterer who complained that the engine fitted to his charter yacht (Jeanneau Sunshine 38) was not powerful enough to push him directly to windward into a F8 and that this was dangerous. My friend patiently explained that the engine was an auxiliary, and had not been installed with punching directly into 40 knots of wind in mind. The charterer replied that he had no choice - his planned destination was directly upwind. It appeared that flexibility, planning and seamanship did not enter into the equation.

Every time I go out I see people motoring - upwind, downwind, light airs, F6, it doesn't seem to matter - they are either in too much of a hurry or (in stronger winds) scared of the sails - all that tension on the strings, the heeling, the noise - they feel more comfortable under engine. This is fine, it's their choice - but if they spent a little more time learning to sail their boats then they might not panic immediately when the engine fails one day. Let's face it,impellors break up, cooling intakes get clogged - even on the best maintained boats.

So why be so hard on a few guys looking to promote sailing skills and good seamanship?

- Nick




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[tome]

Re: Ditch the Engine part 2-meet the \"Oarclub\" founder

Handling a boat without an engine has to be done on some occasions (fouled prop, engine kaput) and I wouldn't regard this as any type of emergency (except perhaps if becalmed in a busy shipping lane). I'm quite happy to sail into my berth if I need to, but wouldn't do it from choice.

Throwing the engine away and using oars is just plain daft in my humble opinion and I certainly don't regard this as good seamanship.

I'm underawed by both the man and his website.

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[Robin]

Re: Free sailing lessons with no engine

Whilst agreeing with you 100% I think the real debate is about ditching the engine entirely which seems remarkably daft. Even the engineless Pardeys in Serrafin said if they sailed in Solent tides and crowded conditions or similar they might consider fitting an engine (I think they ran aground off Lymington entrance?). This is of course irrespective of providing charging for batteries etc.

Having lost the engine in our previous boat (oil pump failed) whilst in the entrance to Poole VERY close to Sandbanks chain ferry and with a Cross Channel ferry on it's way in I can appreciate the problem! There was NO wind, anchoring where we were in the way of the incoming ferry wasn't an option, even if we didn't drift into the chain ferry first and there was no time to rig the tender/outboard alongside etc. Fortunately a nearby yacht took us in tow, but to routinely do this sans moteur in an area where the tide can run up to 4kts would be foolish. That said we can and do sail in and out - when conditions safely allow.

I think our Oarclub friend sails where tidal currents are somewhat less and probably less crowded, as well as being retired and not needing to get to work again on a Monday morning!

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[tcm]

Re: harshness

yep, you are right.

I think the style of his text wound me up. I am always a bit/very wary of those who say that such and such a method of a complex activity/process like sailing or running a business/whatever is the only way, and none other will work - and then intersperse something intended as factual with their own unfounded opinions. I mean, even when people get things factualy incorrect, it doesn't mean the culprit is a semi-literate moron. Likewise, being in a powerboat doesn't mean the occupants are epsilon minuses. Or at least, they might be able to spell "idly" and "dependent".

Anyway, i think you are being a bit too pleasant about him AND are only quite mildly ticking me off for being horrid about about his rancid website because you have the comfortably high vantage point of someone with a rather lovely website. Especially the bit about the BVI which is excellent




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[MainlySteam]

Re: Free sailing lessons with no engine

<<<I think our Oarclub friend sails where tidal currents are somewhat less>>>

In some backwater perhaps?

John

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[Sybarite]

Re: Free sailing lessons with no engine

I have arrived 3 times at the Scilly Isles with no engine for one reason or another ( battery, diesel bug..) and had to pick up up a buoy in a crowded anchorage with a novice crew.

My technique was to triple reef the main and to role up the genoa to a wee size so that short tacking was relatively easy ie to get the sheets home without requiring a winch. The sailing qualities of the boat allowed this although it must have looked strange to the other boaters given the moderate winds.

John

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[AndrewB]

Excuse me?

That's Bellingham, between Washington and Seattle, close to San Juans? An area that is almost as crowded as the Solent in the season, and with tides every bit as strong! (Also similar in having a really irregular tidal pattern with two high tides followed by a low - but only once daily).

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[Robin]

Re: Free sailing lessons with no engine

Hi John

I went through a spell with our W33 after fitting a new engine of always sailing on and off the moorings to keep engine hours down and avoid the need for TWO expensive Volvo dealer services per year to maintain the 3yr warranty (one hours based, one winter layup service). Apart from seriously reducing nookie points with SWMBO it was useful practice, we could do it under main only, main and genoa (on a roller) and genoa and mizzen depending on wind and tide strength etc. Over the years too I've sailed out of berths in Cherbourg (twice), once in a 30ft once a 36ft, and back to Poole (alongside the quay or on a mooring) with a failed engine, it can certainly be done but the shipping lanes are nerve wracking if the wind drops and you sure need to plan arrival/entry into Poole with the tide! In the good(?) old days of Stuart Turners and the like (we had one with only hand starting too) motoring was always hit and miss, but there were also fewer boats about and no marinas.

I bet you use biocide or Soltron these days?

Robin

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[Romeo]

Come the red deisel revolution

It may be that as fuel prices go up more indivuduals will look at adapting their sailing to be fume free. The likes of the Caledonian Raid, where small sail and oar boats enjoy sailing in company are becoming increasingly popular. However there seem to be few vocal representatives of this type of sailing on this forum.

It seems to me that there is a fundamental difficulty that at the moment boats and facilities are designed to be used with engines and do not readily convert to non engine use. People who sail high free boarded boats with a lot of windage and little directional stability cannot imagine propelling them under oar or sail in confined spaces. #those who sail long keel vessels with a low freeboard may be more comfortable with the concept. Rather than saying dump your engine, the oarclub should be saying dump your boat and get one more suitable for getting away from it all.

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[Thirdman]

Re: Free sailing lessons with no engine

Bellingham Bay is a north-south oriented estuarine system located 24 km south of the Canadian border, east of Vancouver Island. The Bay is 12 km long and 8 km wide, with most of its industrial and urban utilization confined to the City of Bellingham, located along the Bay’s northeast corner. The Bay reaches a maximum depth of just over 30 m in its south central region, becoming shallower in all directions with the exception of a depression at the south end of Eliza Island.

Bellingham Bay’s tides are generally mixed and semidiurnal, having unequal low and high waters over a tidal cycle. The mean tidal range is 1.6 m, with a diurnal range of 2.9 m. During spring tides, the higher high and the lower low occur consecutively, causing a range of 3.8 m in the same tidal cycle. During neap tides, the lower high and higher low occur consecutively.
The direction and magnitude of tidal currents depend on bathymetry and the tidal range. Tides tend to be slightly higher under low pressure systems, and when strong southerly winds occur at the same time as high tides. Tides are the driving forces behind current patterns and sediment transport.


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[Robin]

Re: Free sailing lessons with no engine

Hi Thirdman

Why measure distances in kms, the USA land measure is miles and if this is at sea then nautical miles would be more appropriate? So Bellingham Bay is about 6nms x 4nms? That makes it about the size of Poole Harbour give or take a tack. The tidal heights are meaningless in the context of this discussion, it is the tidal stream (rate of current flow) that is meaningful. On the South Coast of England (my area) tides run at up to 4kts and there are places (Alderney Race, Channel Islands, Portland Bill, Solent etc where this is even more and even in places as much as 9kts on big springs. We use these tidal streams to our advantage mostly, but get the timing wrong, lack of wind/slow progress, and then see if you would want to do without an engine routinely. Yes you can anchor and sit out the foul tide then hope for wind to return or get the sculling oar out if you have one, otherwise it is a phone call to the boss to say you are sick.....

If we were sailing a small locality in smallish boats yes, but lots of us do significant miles each year over longer ranges (work Friday, then sail Friday night to France, about 60nms for us, Sunday home, work on Monday morning. THere are tide 'gates' on some routes ie places where if you arrive late the 'gate' slams shut until the tide turns again in 6hrs. We could spend half a day getting out of harbour (my Marina berth is 40 mins at 6kts from the open sea clear of the channel buoys) or we could use some engine help on occasion to get us out into the open sea and clearer air to start sailing properly.

Minimising the use of the engine and practicing doing without is good for the soul, but in our context is not 100% practical unless of course we are racing. I would certainly do this, but not consider ditching the engine.

Happy sailing though, each to his own /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Robin



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[webcraft]

Re: harshness

Flattery will get you everywhere TCM . . .

Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.

Going to the BVI ourselves in October, will add an addendum to the excellent article you mention on our return.

- Nick


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[Thirdman]

Re: Free sailing lessons with no engine

Hi Robin
We sail all winter long on Bellingham Bay. I call it the best sailing test bed in the North America.
Mount Constitution on Orcas Island in the San Juan Islands is a favourite destination. Bellingham Bay is actually a small portion of my "Local" sailing area. It is a large & complex area and may be divided into nine oceanographic areas which are interrelated: Strait of Juan de Fuca, Admiralty Inlet, Puget Sound Basin, Southern Puget Sound, Hood Canal, Possession Sound, Bellingham Bay, San Juan Archipelago, and Georgia Strait.
Tides are a challenge, I can assure you. Makes it all the more interesting though, especially being on a pure sailing craft

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[Robin]

Re: Free sailing lessons with no engine

Hi Thirdman

Sounds great. SWMBO is from the USA and #3 son and family now live in Portland Oregon which is at least on the same coast, very pretty area though they had better weather methinks where they used to live in San Diego!

We do have 'pure' sailing boats here, or some which are semi-pure (small outboard stowed away in the bottom of a locker). But realistically for us in the modern world it is too restrictive other than occasionally as a bit of fun.

Is winter sailing normal there or is that for the really hardy? Plenty do here as well but most have diesel warm air cental heating to go with the engines!

Robin

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[MainlySteam]

Re: Excuse me?

Hi Andrew

I didn't know where he was as unless he was in some total backwater what he is proposing is foolish. But I think if he is in Bellingham you meant he was between Seattle and Vancouver. Seattle/Tacoma I have been to but cannot claim to any experience of Bellingham apart from some business related contact with a shipbuilder there.

I have no objection to people having no engines but they need to understand that they have a responsibility to other boat users if that is so. That responsibility involves time - time waiting for wind, time waiting for tides - and time maintaining searoom from dangers and others - eg in marinas, and perhaps at times includes responsibility to on board visitors.

To couch, as his original post did, his own preference in terms of encouraging people throwing their engines away (perhaps even that everyone should) without any recognition of the downsides is irresponsible and demonstrates, in my opinion, a lack of seamanship and an isolation from the pressures of the world as most of us have to fit in with - which only causes more concern about his own abilities if he is practising what he proposes himself.

Even those who always, or sometimes sail without engines are saying that they do not propose that people throw their engines away.

Am not assuming what your own stance on his proposal is Andrew by my stating the above, has just turned out to be a place for me to have a moan /forums/images/icons/smile.gif.

John

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